Discussion: The Decay System

#1GenericCommentsPosted 4/28/2010 5:05:08 PM
The decay system is an idea that as weapons become used more and more they will become weaker. Every time a round from a weapon hits an enemy that weapon will become a small percent weaker. It would 'stale.' This idea is to encourage players to mix up their styles, make using new weapons easier to use, and possibly make competitive play more dynamic.

The following are details about the decay system clarified by CHAINMAILLEKID:

The original idea had two ways to refresh a weapon:
A: Use another weapon to keep your first more fresh.
B: When you die, your weapons are fresh, or at least fresher.

It would allow there to be "power weapons" that are extremely deadly when fresh, but decay fast.
Or you could also have weapons that hardly decay.
Or you could even have everything decay the same.

As far as favoring one style over another, if it was implemented well it wouldn't push people to one side. It instead makes it a balanced decision...

It would also make trying new guns for the first time a bit easier.
Imagine somebody who wasn't familiar with the decay system, they've been using the same gun all match, they try a new gun...
It seems more powerful, and they are doing well with it. Now that's a feeling of satisfaction that I think any player could appreciate.
Much funner than picking up a new gun and sucking.
And it doesn't change the learning curve at all, it just creates a feeling of empowerment.
Which is good, and fun.


This is only the start of the discussion of the idea. There were some other ideas brought up in the topic this one is based on but I did not want to go back and get them. Please no trolling. Happy discussing.
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#2BlaeuPosted 4/28/2010 5:14:24 PM
I hate the idea. Let me explain why.

First, I like that idea in FPS (or third person) style RPG games. I recently (last year) replayed System Shock 2 and it had a similar style. Weapons would "decay" over time and you would have to repair them. It gave the game a different feel, which is nice in an RPG setting.

Now, when it comes to a game like Con2, Halo, CoD, etc. An FPS that has a strong multi-player emphasis, I hate the idea. It puts too much focus on switching weapons around to keep them fresh, when the focus should be more on tactics and strategy.

When I tell two members of my team to flank the enemy, and one to take the sniper rifle, I don't want to hear, "hold on, I need to get another weapon, one I'm not as good with, before I can do anything." It add an element to the combat that really shouldn't be there.

I also understand this can be used in an attempt to prevent the same weapon from being used by everyone, but if a programmer would take enough time to implement this, they should just take the time to balance their weapons.
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#3N64FTWxDPosted 4/28/2010 5:26:24 PM
It isn't that great because remember, you can only use 2 weapons in this game because there's no more voting system on weapons. So if you do that you have to keep switching weapons and not using your favorite or strategic weapon. Say, your using the SPAS 12 and Phase Rifle, then someone kills you, you wanna kill him back. So after you respawn you take out the phase rifle, It's pretty decayed so you can't kill him like that. You take the SPAS 12 over and try to find him. You die because he ambushes you. Doesn't work well.
#4CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 4/28/2010 5:36:36 PM
@"It isn't that great because remember, you can only use 2 weapons in this game because there's no more voting system on weapons. So if you do that you have to keep switching weapons and not using your favorite or strategic weapon. Say, your using the SPAS 12 and Phase Rifle, then someone kills you, you wanna kill him back. So after you respawn you take out the phase rifle, It's pretty decayed so you can't kill him like that. You take the SPAS 12 over and try to find him. You die because he ambushes you. Doesn't work well."

B: When you die, your weapons are fresh, or at least fresher.

@Blaeu
That system seems pretty different from what I just read on it.
Its a pretty defined gameplay aspect that you are forced to tend to or else have your weapons break in the middle of a gunfight...

Brawl makes a much better reference point, and it probably has more in common with a multiplayer FPS than a RPG third person anyway.
#5N64FTWxDPosted 4/28/2010 5:42:02 PM
But what if it's not fresh enough for him to get the kill, remember bunny hopping? Yeah.
#6GenericComments(Topic Creator)Posted 4/28/2010 5:42:49 PM
I would like to make a note about decay. Decayed weapons won't have a ridiculous damage reduction it will be a subtle steady reduction. A weapons damage should not drop below say 70% of the max power. Also I propose that stale guns refresh themselves over time. Like regenerating health, so that the games pace is not hurt to badly.
You made a good point here:

When I tell two members of my team to flank the enemy, and one to take the sniper rifle, I don't want to hear, "hold on, I need to get another weapon, one I'm not as good with, before I can do anything." It add an element to the combat that really shouldn't be there.

Part of the idea was to encourage players to use a variety of weapons. In this situation your teammate has the option to either wait for his gun to refresh, use another gun, or pray for the best with the stale gun. It is a valid point that this is unfair to players that want to specialize in a particular weapon. I personally am against this idea as I love to use the sniper. However if anyone does have a defense to this I encourage them to come forward and speak. Also a stale weapon is not meant to be horribly crippling only slightly weaker depending on how much said weapon is used.

I hope you did not mind me quoting you in making this topic CHAINMAILLEKID.
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#7GenericComments(Topic Creator)Posted 4/28/2010 5:47:02 PM
Bunny hopping was its own problem. No limits on jumping means that everyone is going to hop around. I believe jumping should be limited. If you sprint you get tired and can't sprint anymore. If you keep jumping it should be the same way.
Bunny hopping, I hope, is that easy to fix.
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I'm not changing this Sig until Resident Feeble...4 is finished.
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#8BlaeuPosted 4/28/2010 5:53:47 PM
Part of the idea was to encourage players to use a variety of weapons.

My problem is that this does not "encourage" players, this punishes players for not using a variety of weapons. If you want to encourage players, offer them incentives to use other weapons. This way, everyone can play the game the way they want to, and can ignore these incentives if they so choose.

By punishing a player for not wanting to "conform" to the idea that they need to continually switch weapons, you are forcing them to play the game a specific way. By "forcing" players to switch weapons, you are basically telling them they cannot play the game the way they want to.
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Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
Basically, if you get spanked, turn the other cheek
#9SupahShnipaPosted 4/28/2010 5:53:48 PM
"A weapons damage should not drop below say 70% of the max power"
Thats 2-5 more bullets to kill someone if the health system from the original is used, thats a HUGE difference. That will easily make or break a situation when facing a half-decent player.

Look; You do better with guns that match your play style. If you try a new gun and suck it's your tactics that need changing. You don't need a false feeling of "empowerment" (Casual friendly anyone? If you've played FPS games before you know what it takes to get good) because if the weapons are balanced you will do better with certain guns with or without this "decay" system.
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#10MC_Brian1Posted 4/28/2010 6:03:00 PM
This simply can't work. But what can be done, isn't a system like Brawl's, but a more Halo Reach-ish thing (but not quite). Let's say I'm spamming my Strike Rifle. Instead of retaining its usual sniper-like accuracy, the shots will begin to stray and won't hit the crosshair, just in the general area of where I'm aiming. It's not necessarily a way to encourage weapon use but a way to encourage players to use precision and not spray, which is the entire point of a Wii FPS, precision.
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