Some interesting things Vs Mike.

#1CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 11/5/2012 1:17:42 PM
First off, here is the raw matches. In order of entertainment value.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywUk5ITk_KI
Serenity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRBnJICLWYo
Streets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asN4Yl-BI9A
Streets.

Now, when I record videos. I sometimes go in and check frame by frame, what my shots were doing, and trying to see where I can improve, and that sort of thing.

One of the things that is cool about the shotgun, is that the pellets that miss will make those marks in the wall. And when I'm reviewing the video, I can count them, and see how many shots actually hit my opponent.
And sometimes, They do all hit. I did everything I could, and you still don't get the kill.


So look at this screenshot:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/Capture.png

This is a perfect SPAS shot.
This is the frame of impact, You can see the hit marker right on mike's neck. Which is where you want to aim at this range. All the shots will hit either his body or his head. So a shot like this can kill OHKO, even if they're wearing full armor and helmet.

Unfortunately, this was one of those cases where the hits didn't register on the server.
But still a good example.

Here's another one, same deal.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/AnotherPerfectShot.png

So these were some of the shots where I had done everything right. And I get to feel good about myself, even though I didn't get the kill.

However, There were many other shots where it Looked like I had done everything right, just watching it. But on review, I look and count the shots on the wall, and see how the shot was actually a miss.

Here's a fun example of one of these cases.
So this is the frame which I actually pulled the trigger.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/Face.png
You can't see the reticle in this shot, because it is RIGHT over the bridge of his nose.
Look in the next one and compare its location.

And this is the very next frame.
How could this possibly go wrong in 1/30th of a second? Well...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/Nextframe.png
And you can actually count the shot about to hit the wall in this pic. There are 5 pellets. Which means one hit mike. But according to the damage, it was a body shot.

And then Mike looks like he's mad and about to kill me. Which... he did. lol.
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#2CHAINMAILLEKID(Topic Creator)Posted 11/5/2012 1:19:23 PM(edited)
Soooo. Getting closer to the good stuff.


I began to notice something weird about the Strike Rifle, which I previously had just assumed was the terrible bloom.
I began to see shots that were landing WAY outside of the cursor bloom.

I took a closer look, and I believe I've made a discovery, which became apparent with the SR, but applies to all weapons.

Take a good look at this screenshot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/Theshot.png
It is actually between frames slightly. You can see where Mike is. And you can see where I'm aiming. And you can see my reticule is lined up over mike, as indicated by its red color.

But look out through the door. What you are seeing there is part of the next frame. And you can see the bullet hit the dumpster outside the door. Way Way WAYYYYY away from where the reticule is at.

Here is the next frame to make it clearer:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/Theoutcome.png
Note, the reticule is still over mike. And still red.

Here's another example:
First frame:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/Behind.png

Second Frame:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/Behind2.png

So what I've determined is actually happening is, As you spin, The shot actually lands behind where you are aiming. And the effect is very drastic.
And its not just with SR shots, although the affect with SR seems larger than with other weapons.

Here you can see it with the shotgun.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/Bulletsbehindthereticule.png

This is the frame after. You can see that the entire bloom box is filled by Mike.
Behind Mike, you can see where the shot actually hit the wall.


So.
I had sorta started to grasp this during the game. I still wasn't sure what was happening. but I decided to try a few things to help me figure some stuff out when I was able to review the video.
Check this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/Givingtheshotalead.png
Here I decided to shoot in front of Mike.

Here is the frame after:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/chainmaillekid/Threads/HVSTC/Givingtheshotalead2.png

Blood. I managed to make a hit.




Soooooooooooooooooooo.
There are still more things that need to be figured out surrounding this. But so far this is already some pretty dang useful stuff.
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#3Symphonia46Posted 11/5/2012 1:54:48 PM(edited)
For the Spas case: I do sometimes shoot people with the Spas and sometimes when I'm sopposed to get a OHKO, it doesn't register because an opponent is moving too fast and the game on the shooter's end was still trying to catch up with the actual player's location. In turn, it becomes from what should've been an OHKO to just 3 bullets registering a hit. Players who use a fast pace strategy tend to be the cause of this. Mike has done this to me a few times and I'm sure I've done it a few times to him when he was using a Spas. Take note that Spas pellet positioning is different on each player's end which also effects the cause.

With the Strike Rifle Case: The Strike Rifle shots do seem inaccurate and misguiding, but it actually happens. I do not know the exact reason for this, but what I do know for this is that even scoped in with the SR, the accuracy is affected by movement as well as jumping/landing. The difference with the SR scope aside from any other scope is that it's accuracy is decreased while shooting, what I like to call "accuracy recoil". People tend to shoot really fast with the SR causing it's accuracy to go haywire and misleading. What I like to do with the SR while scoped in is to take 1 second breaks in between shots for the reticule to reset. The trick is to be calm and patient.

That's just with the scoping part. I think that it's the same while unscoped and that -looking from your screen shots- the accuracy resetting is actually a lot slower than what the reticule is showing. Again, taking second breaks in between shots would be advised.

This may sound stupid because it may sound obsurd and that I think that once you shoot the accurecy does decrease, but when you charge another shot before the accuracy has resetted, the game will register that as a shot and will use the accuracy that was in effect before even if the reticule does make it look like it has resetted.

That's just theorizing for the last part, don't believe all of it.
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#4CHAINMAILLEKID(Topic Creator)Posted 11/5/2012 2:01:15 PM
Symphonia46 posted...
For the Spas case: I do sometimes shoot people with the Spas and sometimes when I'm sopposed to get a OHKO, it doesn't register because an opponent is moving too fast and the game on the shooter's end was still trying to catch up with the actual player's location. In turn, it becomes from what should've been an OHKO to just 3 bullets registering a hit. Players who use a fast pace strategy tend to be the cause of this. Mike has done this to me a few times and I'm sure I've done it a few times to him when he was using a Spas. Take note that Spas pellet positioning is different on each player's end which also effects the cause.

With the Strike Rifle Case: The Strike Rifle shots do seem inaccurate and misguiding, but it actually happens. I do not know the exact reason for this, but what I do know for this is that even scoped in with the SR, the accuracy is affected by movement as well as jumping/landing. The difference with the SR scope aside from any other scope is that it's accuracy is decreased while shooting, what I like to call "accuracy recoil". People tend to shoot really fast with the SR causing it's accuracy to go haywire and misleading. What I like to do with the SR while scoped in is to take 1 second breaks in between shots for the reticule to reset. The trick is to be calm and patient.


From what I've observed, how the game works is basically... When you do damage to somebody, your game talks to the server and says "Hey, I just did this much damage to so and so."

And this is both good and bad.
I know a few glitches that will actually Desync players. so that I'm actually standing in one place, but to everybody else, it looks like I'm somewhere different. They don't need to shoot my actual location, because as long as their game thinks that they've hit me, then I'll die.

I actually have bad syncing problems with Ventus.
I'll be hiding behind something, where I can't possibly be getting hit. And I'll still be being shot. Because on Ventus's side, I'm not hiding behind the doorway, I'm actually 5 feet to the left in plain sight.

Lastly, all my observations are player side.

For the SR, this is totally separate from bloom and spread, and movement speed.
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#5Symphonia46Posted 11/5/2012 2:15:30 PM
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Symphonia46 posted...
For the Spas case: I do sometimes shoot people with the Spas and sometimes when I'm sopposed to get a OHKO, it doesn't register because an opponent is moving too fast and the game on the shooter's end was still trying to catch up with the actual player's location. In turn, it becomes from what should've been an OHKO to just 3 bullets registering a hit. Players who use a fast pace strategy tend to be the cause of this. Mike has done this to me a few times and I'm sure I've done it a few times to him when he was using a Spas. Take note that Spas pellet positioning is different on each player's end which also effects the cause.

With the Strike Rifle Case: The Strike Rifle shots do seem inaccurate and misguiding, but it actually happens. I do not know the exact reason for this, but what I do know for this is that even scoped in with the SR, the accuracy is affected by movement as well as jumping/landing. The difference with the SR scope aside from any other scope is that it's accuracy is decreased while shooting, what I like to call "accuracy recoil". People tend to shoot really fast with the SR causing it's accuracy to go haywire and misleading. What I like to do with the SR while scoped in is to take 1 second breaks in between shots for the reticule to reset. The trick is to be calm and patient.


From what I've observed, how the game works is basically... When you do damage to somebody, your game talks to the server and says "Hey, I just did this much damage to so and so."

And this is both good and bad.
I know a few glitches that will actually Desync players. so that I'm actually standing in one place, but to everybody else, it looks like I'm somewhere different. They don't need to shoot my actual location, because as long as their game thinks that they've hit me, then I'll die.

I actually have bad syncing problems with Ventus.
I'll be hiding behind something, where I can't possibly be getting hit. And I'll still be being shot. Because on Ventus's side, I'm not hiding behind the doorway, I'm actually 5 feet to the left in plain sight.

Lastly, all my observations are player side.

For the SR, this is totally separate from bloom and spread, and movement speed.


Yes, what you said is plenty true and seems to contradict my own information. That's not entirely true, that form of desyncing is what I like to call "wall catching lag". Now you're now thinking "If I'm over there when I'm actually here behind here, and I was actually hit from that other spot when I shouldn't have been, but the game inputs the exact damage anyways." Sure, sure, but when you're running around corners, obstacles, and walls, the game will get confused in a way that from the desyncing issue the game will register your position in that "open space a few feet to the left" near the wall. Because of this, the game actually has to correct itself, the time needed for that registering is enough for the other player to kill you. Wall catching lag may sound like it's only based off lag, that's not entirely true, it also happens with desyncing.
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"What a foolishly foolish fool's fool of a foolish reason for a fool!" -Franziska von Karma
Why are you looking at this signature again?
#6CHAINMAILLEKID(Topic Creator)Posted 11/5/2012 2:21:12 PM
Symphonia46 posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Symphonia46 posted...
For the Spas case: I do sometimes shoot people with the Spas and sometimes when I'm sopposed to get a OHKO, it doesn't register because an opponent is moving too fast and the game on the shooter's end was still trying to catch up with the actual player's location. In turn, it becomes from what should've been an OHKO to just 3 bullets registering a hit. Players who use a fast pace strategy tend to be the cause of this. Mike has done this to me a few times and I'm sure I've done it a few times to him when he was using a Spas. Take note that Spas pellet positioning is different on each player's end which also effects the cause.

With the Strike Rifle Case: The Strike Rifle shots do seem inaccurate and misguiding, but it actually happens. I do not know the exact reason for this, but what I do know for this is that even scoped in with the SR, the accuracy is affected by movement as well as jumping/landing. The difference with the SR scope aside from any other scope is that it's accuracy is decreased while shooting, what I like to call "accuracy recoil". People tend to shoot really fast with the SR causing it's accuracy to go haywire and misleading. What I like to do with the SR while scoped in is to take 1 second breaks in between shots for the reticule to reset. The trick is to be calm and patient.


From what I've observed, how the game works is basically... When you do damage to somebody, your game talks to the server and says "Hey, I just did this much damage to so and so."

And this is both good and bad.
I know a few glitches that will actually Desync players. so that I'm actually standing in one place, but to everybody else, it looks like I'm somewhere different. They don't need to shoot my actual location, because as long as their game thinks that they've hit me, then I'll die.

I actually have bad syncing problems with Ventus.
I'll be hiding behind something, where I can't possibly be getting hit. And I'll still be being shot. Because on Ventus's side, I'm not hiding behind the doorway, I'm actually 5 feet to the left in plain sight.

Lastly, all my observations are player side.

For the SR, this is totally separate from bloom and spread, and movement speed.


Yes, what you said is plenty true and seems to contradict my own information. That's not entirely true, that form of desyncing is what I like to call "wall catching lag". Now you're now thinking "If I'm over there when I'm actually here behind here, and I was actually hit from that other spot when I shouldn't have been, but the game inputs the exact damage anyways." Sure, sure, but when you're running around corners, obstacles, and walls, the game will get confused in a way that from the desyncing issue the game will register your position in that "open space a few feet to the left" near the wall. Because of this, the game actually has to correct itself, the time needed for that registering is enough for the other player to kill you. Wall catching lag may sound like it's only based off lag, that's not entirely true, it also happens with desyncing.


Hmmmmm...
IDK.
I'm not too sure what you mean.
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#7CarbonizerMikePosted 11/5/2012 2:28:59 PM
Alright, I hope my explanations will help. Here is what I have deduced from way too many hours playing this game.

Explosive focus reduces SPAS damage by approximately 30%.

Let me say that again so no one forgets it. If the other person is running Explosive Focus, and you are are using a SPAS, you cannot get a one hit kill on that person if they are at full health. You'll only do about 70% damage no matter how close you are. Don't believe me? Pull Brennan into a private match, have him run his explosive focus SPAS loadout which has no armor, and blast him at close range. You won't kill him.

I recently figured this out during multiple matches with Brennan, XG4Legend, and other people. I think the game somehow treats SPAS shots as explosive damage, thus reducing the damage. Maybe it has something to do with the cluster of pellets.

Now, at this point, you might be saying, "Hey, if you know that, stop running explosive focus!" Well, actually, after our initial set of games were crashed by other people, I remembered I was running it, and I took explosive focus off. I instead ran Ballistics Focus, which doesn't reduce damage. So look at that footage and then tell me what you think.

And as far as public matches, it's simply too dangerous to not run Explosive Focus because SMAW users will blow me up. I'd rather not be blown up.

As far as me running fast with the Carbonizer... well, I run with it! You don't move that slow unless you're in secondary mode (only done when I fire).

As far as the Strike Rifle issues: the hell if I know.
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#8CHAINMAILLEKID(Topic Creator)Posted 11/5/2012 2:53:19 PM
I wonder if explosive focus will affect the spas on the offensive side of things.
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#9Symphonia46Posted 11/5/2012 2:55:44 PM
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
I wonder if explosive focus will affect the spas on the offensive side of things.


I would prefer wakking people with a chicken would do more damage with Explosives Focus.

Just in my opinion.
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"What a foolishly foolish fool's fool of a foolish reason for a fool!" -Franziska von Karma
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#10CHAINMAILLEKID(Topic Creator)Posted 11/5/2012 3:04:03 PM
Symphonia46 posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
I wonder if explosive focus will affect the spas on the offensive side of things.


I would prefer wakking people with a chicken would do more damage with Explosives Focus.

Just in my opinion.


Well, it wouldn't do more damage, but if somehow there is an explosive element to the Shotty, then maybe the pellets will have a larger hitbox.
Or, maybe it might affect the spread?
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