So what lesson do you believe hvs has learned from the whole Tcon vs Con2 thing?

#41old_man_mossyPosted 11/12/2012 7:16:31 PM
CarbonizerMike posted...
donkeypunch1116 posted...
CarbonizerMike posted...
donkeypunch1116 posted...
Dude, I played tcon with an absolutely huge community of players in BAP. They were really only a division of the tcon community, and they were still much larger then the con2 community even at its peak.

That said, they were all very much looking forward to con2, and they all played it. They hated it. A whole community of player unanimously hated it, and left the franchise for good.

How do you explain that?


It doesn't need to be explained because it's almost immaterial. You're talking about, what, 50 players? How large was this community? Even if it was 100 people, out of a pool of maybe 100,000 Conduit 2 players (I don't know the number, guessing here), it's not really indicative.

Conduit 2 had a dropoff from people not purchasing the game after they purchased the first one. The more relevant question is "Why did people not buy Conduit 2 despite buying the first one?"


Dude the tcon community was hella bigger. And the majority of these hardcore tcon fans did buy con2: and hated it.

You can't deny the stats


We don't have any stats Punch. We don't know what Conduit 2 sold.


I will introduce sales into the mix, someone please quote me...as Im sure Mike still has me blocked.

VGChartz has C2 selling .10 mil while TCON sold .53 mil

If anyone can, for lols please go to your Nintendo Channel and search Conduit 2 and look at its videos....you will see 2. Look under TCON...you'll see 20 or more.

TCON was hyped, had a significantly higher install base, and is still being played today.

C2 had a smaller install base, was region locked to divide it further, and radically changed design elements by offering weapon loadouts and perks.

To me both are good games.

I'm in the minority...but when it comes to fanbases abandoning games; in my personal experience they try it first- they feel thet owe it that much...and out of that .10 mil...how many left with a bad taste in their mouth.

I've know forums full...I've also known those that love it.

I think this game needs a COD equivalent to blackops barebones (thats right haters...Ops has plenty of fun modes, from wager to melee to CK...)

Options rarely hurt a title, especially one as jeckle and hyde as this one.

We need every one of those .10 mil worldwide bastages to hang around if we want to keep this boat afloat.
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#42HungoverHero777Posted 11/12/2012 7:18:16 PM
old_man_mossy posted...
CarbonizerMike posted...
donkeypunch1116 posted...
CarbonizerMike posted...
donkeypunch1116 posted...
Dude, I played tcon with an absolutely huge community of players in BAP. They were really only a division of the tcon community, and they were still much larger then the con2 community even at its peak.

That said, they were all very much looking forward to con2, and they all played it. They hated it. A whole community of player unanimously hated it, and left the franchise for good.

How do you explain that?


It doesn't need to be explained because it's almost immaterial. You're talking about, what, 50 players? How large was this community? Even if it was 100 people, out of a pool of maybe 100,000 Conduit 2 players (I don't know the number, guessing here), it's not really indicative.

Conduit 2 had a dropoff from people not purchasing the game after they purchased the first one. The more relevant question is "Why did people not buy Conduit 2 despite buying the first one?"


Dude the tcon community was hella bigger. And the majority of these hardcore tcon fans did buy con2: and hated it.

You can't deny the stats


We don't have any stats Punch. We don't know what Conduit 2 sold.


I will introduce sales into the mix, someone please quote me...as Im sure Mike still has me blocked.

VGChartz has C2 selling .10 mil while TCON sold .53 mil

If anyone can, for lols please go to your Nintendo Channel and search Conduit 2 and look at its videos....you will see 2. Look under TCON...you'll see 20 or more.

TCON was hyped, had a significantly higher install base, and is still being played today.

C2 had a smaller install base, was region locked to divide it further, and radically changed design elements by offering weapon loadouts and perks.

To me both are good games.

I'm in the minority...but when it comes to fanbases abandoning games; in my personal experience they try it first- they feel thet owe it that much...and out of that .10 mil...how many left with a bad taste in their mouth.

I've know forums full...I've also known those that love it.

I think this game needs a COD equivalent to blackops barebones (thats right haters...Ops has plenty of fun modes, from wager to melee to CK...)

Options rarely hurt a title, especially one as jeckle and hyde as this one.

We need every one of those .10 mil worldwide bastages to hang around if we want to keep this boat afloat.


Quoted for ya Mossy.
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#43old_man_mossyPosted 11/12/2012 7:33:16 PM(edited)
Thank you, Keith.

Good news, btw, about the wii-u! Hope you and your sister get one...and as per our prior conversations referenced with you liking the premise of Assassins Creed 3 also; I hope we wolf pack it up in the games Co-op online multiplayer mode (and other online modes too).

I now return you to our previously televised program...allready in progress. ;)
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"Insurrection is the most sacred of the rights and the most idispensible of duties" - Marquis de La Fayette
#44CynralKynathelPosted 11/12/2012 7:27:53 PM
Hawke0 posted...
Still not imbalanced. Also, Double Armor.
the SMAW is imbalanced while not OP. Which is why I wanted it turned into the Shriekers secondary fire but faster, less accurate, smaller clip, and more power.


Double armor is one of the most useless perks. It makes you as slow as molasses only so you can survive a few extra shots. Nobody likes wasting 3 perk slots for something that only needs two.
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#45Hawke0Posted 11/12/2012 7:35:58 PM(edited)
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Hawke0 posted...
Still not imbalanced. Also, Double Armor.
the SMAW is imbalanced while not OP. Which is why I wanted it turned into the Shriekers secondary fire but faster, less accurate, smaller clip, and more power.


It in imbalanced though...
Very easily OP

Full PR perks are arguably broken, thus why tuning or spec are frequently banned from competitive play.


No. The PR has horrible hip fire, the scope is so zoomed in it's useless at close range and painful at medium range, has little ammunition, is worthless against double armor, requires you to aim well, and every time you shoot you're taken out of the scope. Not to mention if you have a light weapon then you can easily dodge it's shots. You need Specialization to get any use out of it, just like DE for a Strike Rifle.

Without perks it's one of the worst guns in the game, with Spec. it's a good long range weapon, and with all the upgrades stacked it's a powerful long range weapon, but that's offset by stealth, double armor, and it's worthlessness at close range.

It reminds me of what Brennan said about the one pistol in Halo 4 that can OHK at close range, "because OHK potential=OP".
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#46HungoverHero777Posted 11/12/2012 7:37:55 PM
old_man_mossy posted...
Thank you, Keith.

Good news, btw, about the wii-u! Hope you and your sister get one...and as per our prior conversations referenced with you liking the premise of Assassins Creed 3 also; I hope we wolf pack it up in the games Co-op online multiplayer mode (and other online modes too).

I now return you to our previously televised program...allready in progress. ;)


Thanks. I'll take that into consideration when deciding on the "mature" game in my post.
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#47Hawke0Posted 11/12/2012 7:41:06 PM
CynralKynathel posted...
Hawke0 posted...
Still not imbalanced. Also, Double Armor.
the SMAW is imbalanced while not OP. Which is why I wanted it turned into the Shriekers secondary fire but faster, less accurate, smaller clip, and more power.


Double armor is one of the most useless perks. It makes you as slow as molasses only so you can survive a few extra shots. Nobody likes wasting 3 perk slots for something that only needs two.


Double armor is one of the most useless perks.

Double armor

useless


You, my friend, have lost all credibility. jk, jk.
But seriously, it makes you immune to OHK's from pretty much everything, the only gun that it makes you weaker against would be the Dark Star, it makes the Strike Rifle a 4(?) hit kill, it's very difficult for SMAW users to OHK you without the damage CP... all at the cost of a little speed. Really, a carby tank is the only thing in the game without any real counter.
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C2 FC: 0562-2516-9316 Idiot definition of the week, Generic: Any game that is in first person and/or involves guns. Use: "Dur, Bioshock is so generic"
#48CynralKynathelPosted 11/12/2012 7:45:51 PM
Hawke0 posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Hawke0 posted...
Still not imbalanced. Also, Double Armor.
the SMAW is imbalanced while not OP. Which is why I wanted it turned into the Shriekers secondary fire but faster, less accurate, smaller clip, and more power.


It in imbalanced though...
Very easily OP

Full PR perks are arguably broken, thus why tuning or spec are frequently banned from competitive play.


No. The PR has horrible hip fire, the scope is so zoomed in it's useless at close range and painful at medium range, has little ammunition, is worthless against double armor, requires you to aim well, and every time you shoot you're taken out of the scope. Not to mention if you have a light weapon then you can easily dodge it's shots. You need Specialization to get any use out of it, just like DE for a Strike Rifle.

Without perks it's one of the worst guns in the game, with Spec. it's a good long range weapon, and with all the upgrades stacked it's a powerful long range weapon, but that's offset by stealth, double armor, and it's worthlessness at close range.

It reminds me of what Brennan said about the one pistol in Halo 4 that can OHK at close range, "because OHK potential=OP".


First, I'm calling the fully stacked upgrade PR imbalanced, not the PR by itself. Second, how people have you seen use Double armor or stealth? Not many I'll bet. Because those perks are not that useful. Like I said before, nobody likes wasting 3 perks for something that should be two. And nobody realizes how much they rely on radar, so they think stealth is useless as well. Third, who runs around with a your secondary on when you have no use for it? Nobody, because you should be safe behind a wall if there is no warning. Everybody who is behind a wall never runs or hops around or gets to dodge imaginary bullets. Also, I've made plenty of medium range shots with the scope, its not that hard. This is coming from someone who has used the PR in both sides of the perk hallway. I've never seen anyone run around while they were behind a wall, unless they were in a rush. Even then they were in a straight line.
---
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#49CynralKynathelPosted 11/12/2012 7:52:00 PM
Hawke0 posted...
CynralKynathel posted...

Double armor is one of the most useless perks. It makes you as slow as molasses only so you can survive a few extra shots. Nobody likes wasting 3 perk slots for something that only needs two.


Double armor is one of the most useless perks.

Double armor

useless


You, my friend, have lost all credibility. jk, jk.
But seriously, it makes you immune to OHK's from pretty much everything, the only gun that it makes you weaker against would be the Dark Star, it makes the Strike Rifle a 4(?) hit kill, it's very difficult for SMAW users to OHK you without the damage CP... all at the cost of a little speed. Really, a carby tank is the only thing in the game without any real counter.


Even with double armor a simple explosive will take out a large chunk of your health. And moving slowly doesn't help against something that has a large blast radius or with a mostly accurate cursor. I already have a hard time dodging things like that. And moving slowly with heavy armor would make things more difficult.
---
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#50Hawke0Posted 11/12/2012 7:54:21 PM
CynralKynathel posted...
Hawke0 posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Hawke0 posted...
Still not imbalanced. Also, Double Armor.
the SMAW is imbalanced while not OP. Which is why I wanted it turned into the Shriekers secondary fire but faster, less accurate, smaller clip, and more power.


It in imbalanced though...
Very easily OP

Full PR perks are arguably broken, thus why tuning or spec are frequently banned from competitive play.


No. The PR has horrible hip fire, the scope is so zoomed in it's useless at close range and painful at medium range, has little ammunition, is worthless against double armor, requires you to aim well, and every time you shoot you're taken out of the scope. Not to mention if you have a light weapon then you can easily dodge it's shots. You need Specialization to get any use out of it, just like DE for a Strike Rifle.

Without perks it's one of the worst guns in the game, with Spec. it's a good long range weapon, and with all the upgrades stacked it's a powerful long range weapon, but that's offset by stealth, double armor, and it's worthlessness at close range.

It reminds me of what Brennan said about the one pistol in Halo 4 that can OHK at close range, "because OHK potential=OP".


First, I'm calling the fully stacked upgrade PR imbalanced, not the PR by itself. Second, how people have you seen use Double armor or stealth? Not many I'll bet. Because those perks are not that useful. Like I said before, nobody likes wasting 3 perks for something that should be two. And nobody realizes how much they rely on radar, so they think stealth is useless as well. Third, who runs around with a your secondary on when you have no use for it? Nobody, because you should be safe behind a wall if there is no warning. Everybody who is behind a wall never runs or hops around or gets to dodge imaginary bullets. Also, I've made plenty of medium range shots with the scope, its not that hard. This is coming from someone who has used the PR in both sides of the perk hallway. I've never seen anyone run around while they were behind a wall, unless they were in a rush. Even then they were in a straight line.


Saying the PR is OP because people don't know how to counter it when it's as easy as it is like saying the Deatomizer is OP because it can OHK if they don't walk out of the way. I was talking to Chain, which explains the whole perkless bit.
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