Face the facts...

#131TheOmegaShenPosted 1/5/2013 10:18:33 AM
LigersRule posted...
old_man_mossy posted...
I actually rather dislike them...they couldn't do consoles right and do only a passable job with their other products.


TAKE THAT BACK! NOW!

The Dreamcast is the single best console of all time, and anyone who says otherwise is a terrible person for trying to deceive the population of the world. If anybody ever insults SEGA's console making abilities in front of my face, they won't leave with as much blood as they had before.


The Dreamcast is overrated.
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#132LigersRulePosted 1/5/2013 10:29:27 AM
TheOmegaShen posted...
LigersRule posted...
old_man_mossy posted...
I actually rather dislike them...they couldn't do consoles right and do only a passable job with their other products.


TAKE THAT BACK! NOW!

The Dreamcast is the single best console of all time, and anyone who says otherwise is a terrible person for trying to deceive the population of the world. If anybody ever insults SEGA's console making abilities in front of my face, they won't leave with as much blood as they had before.


The Dreamcast is overrated.


You're dead to me, Shen. Even as I type, I'm loading up Jet Set Radio, because I need a short break from Sonic Adventure 2. The Dreamcast is perfect.
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#133games1256Posted 1/5/2013 11:15:01 AM
old_man_mossy posted...
Well if you can twist fiction into 'reality' enough to think like Games...that HVS signed up to a contract/agreed to a contract that allowed Sega to publish a game in such limited numbers, with such craptacular advertising and retail availibility that HVS would loose money.....then clearly HVS is either devoted or mad....they don't care about profit at all and just keep putting work into something they believe in and trying to keep the product 'active' in the day to day happenings.

Kinda what all inventors/scientist do when they believe on something...but I digress. I'm still working off of the false narrative Games has suggested that HVS lost money....anywho...

They believe in it, and themselves...if games theory is to be believed...and therefore the series continues, be it an Edsil or not. It continues...and if they have to be patient and push for a publisher while producing licensed shovel ware to publish their own IP's...so be it.

Even if he right...which he's not....he's wrong. No one invests into a project guaranteed to lose money by a limited print run...even if the print run sells out....unless they have another move to make, or another motive....like showing it does great community involved support or can make two radically different games in the same series by listening to and acting on fan input.

HVS is not done with Conduit. I'd wager they would go bankrupt before they write off making a C3.

Have fun with your denial that there will be a conduit 3. They do care about profit they have to in order to stay open. Just because they want to make a conduit 3 does not mean they will if the game can not profit.
#134games1256Posted 1/5/2013 11:21:02 AM
B05S_Brennan posted...
games1256 posted...
B05S_Brennan posted...
games1256 posted...
Profit depends on the cost to make the game not how many copies are made. Yes they had the engine in place but there was still a year and a half making the game.


It would likely depend on both. But since you seem to know, what exactly did HVS spend on the game? And a year and a half isn't that bad, especially for a small company that working on multiple projects.

Selling a certain amount of copies has to do with getting another game say conduit 3 because they are not going to invest in a future game if their past game did not make money. They may like to make games but they have to make a living.


They can make money off of licensed games, and use that money for their own IPs.


They are not going to invest in their own games if they will not sell enough.


You don't know. HVS loves Conduit. Maybe they would take the risk, if they had the money from their licensed games.

They would like to make conduit. just because they might have the money does not mean they would risk it. The cost to make a conduit game on Wii U would be higher then it is on the wii.
#135games1256Posted 1/5/2013 11:25:10 AM
old_man_mossy posted...
games1256 posted...
They would have copies of the game left. So if there was demand from retail the copies of the game would be in stores, but Sega or HVS can not force stores to buy copies of the game.


Stores aren't given an option to buy games if the publisher enters into an exclusive deal (to make more money) with select distributors.

That's exactly what Sega did with GameStop. Who cares if the game you did a low print run cant enjoy greater sales at the big box stores....You already are screwing HVS over big time, why not make em buy you dinner too.

You think Walmart, vendors of shovel ware, extraordinaire, would not agree to vend C2 while selling all the other crap they do? Sorry but I don't agree.

Check their shelves....go ahead, do it. They sell darn near everything, except for games that have been denied to them by way of select distribution.

Walmart also isnt known in the video game world as a company that approaches vendors and asks for product. They are the draw, as Walmart moves merchandise. Vendors approach them. There are many many Walmarts and they tend to carry more copies than 2 or 3, and rapidly restock. Sega didn't have the supply to approach Walmart, or any other Big Box. Fortunately for Sega, GameStop exists.

Well conduit 2 is a small game so therefore the gamestop deal. Sega just wanted to dump HVS and move on.
#136games1256Posted 1/5/2013 11:29:09 AM
old_man_mossy posted...
Well if you can twist fiction into 'reality' enough to think like Games...that HVS signed up to a contract/agreed to a contract that allowed Sega to publish a game in such limited numbers, with such craptacular advertising and retail availibility that HVS would loose money.....then clearly HVS is either devoted or mad....they don't care about profit at all and just keep putting work into something they believe in and trying to keep the product 'active' in the day to day happenings.

Kinda what all inventors/scientist do when they believe on something...but I digress. I'm still working off of the false narrative Games has suggested that HVS lost money....anywho...

They believe in it, and themselves...if games theory is to be believed...and therefore the series continues, be it an Edsil or not. It continues...and if they have to be patient and push for a publisher while producing licensed shovel ware to publish their own IP's...so be it.

Even if he right...which he's not....he's wrong. No one invests into a project guaranteed to lose money by a limited print run...even if the print run sells out....unless they have another move to make, or another motive....like showing it does great community involved support or can make two radically different games in the same series by listening to and acting on fan input.

HVS is not done with Conduit. I'd wager they would go bankrupt before they write off making a C3.

Based on the break even point for a wii game they lost money. But believe what you want and think they made money.
#137_SignalPosted 1/5/2013 11:40:41 AM
games1256 posted...
old_man_mossy posted...
Well if you can twist fiction into 'reality' enough to think like Games...that HVS signed up to a contract/agreed to a contract that allowed Sega to publish a game in such limited numbers, with such craptacular advertising and retail availibility that HVS would loose money.....then clearly HVS is either devoted or mad....they don't care about profit at all and just keep putting work into something they believe in and trying to keep the product 'active' in the day to day happenings.

Kinda what all inventors/scientist do when they believe on something...but I digress. I'm still working off of the false narrative Games has suggested that HVS lost money....anywho...

They believe in it, and themselves...if games theory is to be believed...and therefore the series continues, be it an Edsil or not. It continues...and if they have to be patient and push for a publisher while producing licensed shovel ware to publish their own IP's...so be it.

Even if he right...which he's not....he's wrong. No one invests into a project guaranteed to lose money by a limited print run...even if the print run sells out....unless they have another move to make, or another motive....like showing it does great community involved support or can make two radically different games in the same series by listening to and acting on fan input.

HVS is not done with Conduit. I'd wager they would go bankrupt before they write off making a C3.

Based on the break even point for a wii game they lost money. But believe what you want and think they made money.


I really don't want to feed this thread, but what precisely in dollars of sales is the break even point for a Wii game?

Considering the physical disks cost about one dollar to make, or even less, that the game sold for $50 at release, and even when I bought it several months later, and considering that Gamestop probably got about $15 of that. That means that $35 from each copy sold went back to Sega minus the $2 to physically produce the disk, case, and instruction booklet. So, Sega got $33 for each game sold and spent zero on advertising so they "made" $33 on each unit sold minus the royalties and development costs paid to HVS. Sega did fine on this game.

Since HVS had a contract to produce the game for Sega, they were probably paid up front for the development cost of the game, along with receiving royalties per unit sold, usually in the 5% range.

I think everyone would really like to see the actual numbers that you're basing your claims on.
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#138B05S_BrennanPosted 1/5/2013 11:41:01 AM
games1256 posted...
They would like to make conduit. just because they might have the money does not mean they would risk it.


It doesn't mean they wouldn't.

The cost to make a conduit game on Wii U would be higher then it is on the wii.


Not necessarily. They could release it as download only, which would reduce cost.
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#139B05S_BrennanPosted 1/5/2013 11:43:11 AM
games1256 posted...
old_man_mossy posted...
Well if you can twist fiction into 'reality' enough to think like Games...that HVS signed up to a contract/agreed to a contract that allowed Sega to publish a game in such limited numbers, with such craptacular advertising and retail availibility that HVS would loose money.....then clearly HVS is either devoted or mad....they don't care about profit at all and just keep putting work into something they believe in and trying to keep the product 'active' in the day to day happenings.

Kinda what all inventors/scientist do when they believe on something...but I digress. I'm still working off of the false narrative Games has suggested that HVS lost money....anywho...

They believe in it, and themselves...if games theory is to be believed...and therefore the series continues, be it an Edsil or not. It continues...and if they have to be patient and push for a publisher while producing licensed shovel ware to publish their own IP's...so be it.

Even if he right...which he's not....he's wrong. No one invests into a project guaranteed to lose money by a limited print run...even if the print run sells out....unless they have another move to make, or another motive....like showing it does great community involved support or can make two radically different games in the same series by listening to and acting on fan input.

HVS is not done with Conduit. I'd wager they would go bankrupt before they write off making a C3.

Have fun with your denial that there will be a conduit 3. They do care about profit they have to in order to stay open. Just because they want to make a conduit 3 does not mean they will if the game can not profit.


You're just in denial that he's right.
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#140old_man_mossyPosted 1/5/2013 11:59:41 AM(edited)
games1256 posted...
old_man_mossy posted...
Well if you can twist fiction into 'reality' enough to think like Games...that HVS signed up to a contract/agreed to a contract that allowed Sega to publish a game in such limited numbers, with such craptacular advertising and retail availibility that HVS would loose money.....then clearly HVS is either devoted or mad....they don't care about profit at all and just keep putting work into something they believe in and trying to keep the product 'active' in the day to day happenings.

Kinda what all inventors/scientist do when they believe on something...but I digress. I'm still working off of the false narrative Games has suggested that HVS lost money....anywho...

They believe in it, and themselves...if games theory is to be believed...and therefore the series continues, be it an Edsil or not. It continues...and if they have to be patient and push for a publisher while producing licensed shovel ware to publish their own IP's...so be it.

Even if he right...which he's not....he's wrong. No one invests into a project guaranteed to lose money by a limited print run...even if the print run sells out....unless they have another move to make, or another motive....like showing it does great community involved support or can make two radically different games in the same series by listening to and acting on fan input.

HVS is not done with Conduit. I'd wager they would go bankrupt before they write off making a C3.

Based on the break even point for a wii game they lost money. But believe what you want and think they made money.


No, I can act like I'm in preschool too...be in denial and believe they lost money.

You've shown no proof, you have no proof, just kindly shut the hell up when it comes to pushing your BS as facts.

Oh...and to close....

If HVS wanted to make money, then why would they agree to a contract and do the work to develop C2 just to lose money?

Either your daft or a troll.

Fact one: the printed copies sold very well.

Fact two: HVS did work to produce C2 for Sega to publish with a simple detail like minimal copies to be distributed clearly being apart of the agreement.

Fact three: You claim that HVS cares about profit.

Quandary: Why would they have lost money on a nearly sold out, pre agreed to contract? would not their profit seeking mindset demand that the sales numbers bestatistically sound as to produce a profit? (because you say yourself hvs wants to make money.) why agree to that in the first place if it doesn't make them money? This is what Lig was going on about with stat class references...but it's clearly beyond you, or perhaps you are trolling.

You simply don't, nor do I think will ever get it any time soon. I lol at my 'reading' problems. With you it's just garbage in, garbage out....no one can make sense of your nonsensical jabber.

Maybe we are fanboys...but I'd take that lot over 'intellectual stunted' Our problem with you is not that you hate the game...it's your gibberish, insults and lack of basic real work understanding. You are the one living in your own world.

Do me a favor and NEVER run a business of you live in the U.S. my tax dollars bail out enough people who have no understanding on how business operates. You never will either...till you learn to communicate and debate.

Blocking you now, as I gave it a try and you aren't worth the effort. Good luck finding patient enough ears...and I hope you find joy in talking to yourself.

Consider me Amish and consider you shunned as far as we go.
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