Face the facts...

#91CynralKynathelPosted 1/4/2013 1:09:47 PM
_Signal posted...
VintageRonJohn posted...


Haha, thanks RJ. I certainly didn't mean to issue a challenge, because most people here know much more about the games they play than the causal gamer.

I feel like I know a lot less than most everyone else here.


Yep, that's me.
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#92games1256Posted 1/4/2013 2:03:25 PM
old_man_mossy posted...
Again, games, who is this 'they' that didnt buy C2 and made it a flop?

C2 nearly sold out of printed copies. I realize the print run was small, but thats SEGA's deal...they were burned pretty bad with ALL their wii stuff that wasnt rated kid friendly...and even some of that flopped hard...so why would they take a chance after what happened with Manhunt?

Who stayed away from C2 because of TCON...I didnt and I really didnt care for TCONs hacked apart online.

Now I myself will give you the benefit of the doubt, as I know there are people who did stay away...even though C2's online is more than marginally different than TCON's.....

But you must get this through your head....

Based on units produced, I've heard it thrown around here by Chain and others...C2 did not flop. It sold well. You cant sell copies that dont exist, and every game has a small percentage of unsold units....

8 out of 10 is gauged at 80% the same as 80,000 out of 100,000.

In the end it made both companies money, too. If it did not, I'd welcome someone to provide a reliable link, otherwise.

If you want to gain some traction in your debate here...post some numbers showing a loss, or poor sales when based off the total available units, some hard numbers if you will....not speculation as to why Sega sold print runs short, did not agressively target venders, didnt promote it beyond 2 vids on the Nin channel, had a lackluster ad campaign that even left errored ads to this day about Invasion being online in the Sega/C2 online ad....

All of those things can and should have affected sales of the available units at retail...so it shouldnt be hard to demonstrate C2 couldnt sell if those unsold numbers exist in a large enough percentage.

Then you'll have something to debate with.

Ads does not equal sells all the time. the ads have to have enough pay off in sales to give reason to spend the money on ads. Well give me a reliable link that said they made money. Just because they sold most of the copies made does not mean they made money. After conduit 2 was made Sega just wanted to wash their hands of HVS. Since they had a contract they needed to finish. Sega was not going to make more copies if the demand was not there. Selling 1/5th of the conduit is clearly a flop.
#93B05S_BrennanPosted 1/4/2013 2:17:11 PM
games1256 posted...
I am not saying they look on message boards to see if they should buy the game. They made that judgement from the conduit and stayed away from conduit 2.


Opinions of TCon were varied between gamers. Some loved it, some liked it, some found it mediocre, some found it really bad, but a lot of those people thought Conduit 2 was going to fix many of the first game's problems. I believe what kept C2 from selling more quickly was a lack of advertising and other popular games coming out around the same time.
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#94B05S_BrennanPosted 1/4/2013 2:20:44 PM
games1256 posted...
Selling 1/5th of the conduit is clearly a flop.


Not if only 1/5 of TCon was produced.
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#95old_man_mossyPosted 1/4/2013 2:27:41 PM
games1256 posted...
old_man_mossy posted...
Again, games, who is this 'they' that didnt buy C2 and made it a flop?

C2 nearly sold out of printed copies. I realize the print run was small, but thats SEGA's deal...they were burned pretty bad with ALL their wii stuff that wasnt rated kid friendly...and even some of that flopped hard...so why would they take a chance after what happened with Manhunt?

Who stayed away from C2 because of TCON...I didnt and I really didnt care for TCONs hacked apart online.

Now I myself will give you the benefit of the doubt, as I know there are people who did stay away...even though C2's online is more than marginally different than TCON's.....

But you must get this through your head....

Based on units produced, I've heard it thrown around here by Chain and others...C2 did not flop. It sold well. You cant sell copies that dont exist, and every game has a small percentage of unsold units....

8 out of 10 is gauged at 80% the same as 80,000 out of 100,000.

In the end it made both companies money, too. If it did not, I'd welcome someone to provide a reliable link, otherwise.

If you want to gain some traction in your debate here...post some numbers showing a loss, or poor sales when based off the total available units, some hard numbers if you will....not speculation as to why Sega sold print runs short, did not agressively target venders, didnt promote it beyond 2 vids on the Nin channel, had a lackluster ad campaign that even left errored ads to this day about Invasion being online in the Sega/C2 online ad....

All of those things can and should have affected sales of the available units at retail...so it shouldnt be hard to demonstrate C2 couldnt sell if those unsold numbers exist in a large enough percentage.

Then you'll have something to debate with.

Ads does not equal sells all the time. the ads have to have enough pay off in sales to give reason to spend the money on ads. Well give me a reliable link that said they made money. Just because they sold most of the copies made does not mean they made money. After conduit 2 was made Sega just wanted to wash their hands of HVS. Since they had a contract they needed to finish. Sega was not going to make more copies if the demand was not there. Selling 1/5th of the conduit is clearly a flop.


No, I disagree with it being clearly a flop.. not in the place known as reality; as TCON had how many more units produced. The only thing I see thats clear is your inability to understand what I'm trying to explain. That could be my fault as perhaps I'm doing a poor job of it...but I have honestly tried wiith you but you cant seperate speculation from statistics, and facts from hunches.

The only proof I need to see is the sales quota, and a nearly sold out product is just that.

Lets just agree to disagree. However, you may wish to start backing up your hunches with facts and quotes.

Otherwise you will continue to be called out on them in your future discussions....

You cant pass of feeling as fact, claim to know the future, or say to know with certainty peoples, let alone companies, motives without proof...and hope to be taken seriously.

You arent a troll, I think you just need practice at forum and debate etiquette. Until you realize this and see the flaws in your arguments though...well I tried and now I tire. Other stuff to do and real world responsibilities to attend to.

Take care, and good luck.
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#96games1256Posted 1/4/2013 3:07:58 PM
B05S_Brennan posted...
games1256 posted...
Selling 1/5th of the conduit is clearly a flop.


Not if only 1/5 of TCon was produced.

They expected a flop so they did not make many copies.
#97games1256Posted 1/4/2013 3:12:41 PM
games1256 posted...
B05S_Brennan posted...
games1256 posted...
Selling 1/5th of the conduit is clearly a flop.


Not if only 1/5 of TCon was produced.

They expected a flop so they did not make many copies.


A sold out product does not mean success. If Sega made 500,000 copies of conduit 2 it would not mean more then the original number of copies would have sold. What you need is to understand how video games has to sell a certain number of copies to make money. They made a limited number of copies so they would not have lots of copies left over not sold in a warehouse.
#98games1256Posted 1/4/2013 4:10:30 PM
Just because some people of this board can not understand the logic of knowing that a future conduit is not coming does not mean I can not post about it.
#99CynralKynathelPosted 1/4/2013 4:18:55 PM
games1256 posted...
Just because some people of this board can not understand the logic of knowing that a future conduit is not coming does not mean I can not post about it.


But you are saying it like you know for a fact that there won't be one, there still is the possibility of one. You are trying to make your opinions a fact.
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#100games1256Posted 1/4/2013 4:21:46 PM
CynralKynathel posted...
games1256 posted...
Just because some people of this board can not understand the logic of knowing that a future conduit is not coming does not mean I can not post about it.


But you are saying it like you know for a fact that there won't be one, there still is the possibility of one. You are trying to make your opinions a fact.

I am not trying to make my opinions a fact. What I say that there won't a conduit 3 is clearly a fact. But be in denial that HVS will release a conduit 3 and that they will make a conduit 3 just because fans want it.