Conduit 2 is boring.

#71CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 4/5/2013 2:39:28 AM
Chesluk posted...
From: CHAINMAILLEKID | #057
like2nap posted...
if you can't get the aiming to do what you want it's because you just haven't tried hard enough.


I think this goes for you as well.


I'm sorry, but when 90% of the time ADSing causes my aim to jerk like someone just took a shillelagh to my dominant elbow, you can't justify by saying I "haven't tried hard enough", it's just blatant that it's a poorly implemented feature.


I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
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#72like2napPosted 4/5/2013 2:43:27 AM
Chesluk posted...
From: like2nap | #069
If you're talking about BLOPS 2 It won't jerk at all unless you have aim assist on.

Referring to C2. Never once had an issue with my controls in any of the CoD games.


Then yeah I completely agree with that. Go ADS and aim at the sky. Or the ground. Whichever tickles your fancy. The game would register you aiming outside of the deadzone and just fling your aim in whatever direction you were pointing. There was no separate ADS settings. There wasn't even a transition. A very poorly implemented mechanic, and there's no excuse for it. Especially when so many games had ADS before this one that functioned much better. They hyped that up as something the fans wanted. Yeah, we did want it, but we wanted it to work.
#73CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 4/5/2013 2:58:46 AM
like2nap posted...
Wii motion plus doesn't add missing settings nor does it make up for them. That's the end of the story.


And do the settings add or make up for wii motion plus?
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#74CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 4/5/2013 3:13:46 AM
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
like2nap posted...
Wii motion plus doesn't add missing settings nor does it make up for them. That's the end of the story.


And do the settings add or make up for wii motion plus?


Also, you're being completely ridiculous.
You have an opinion, and you don't have to keep it to yourself.
But you're just barely falling short of DEMANDING that others agree with you.

And making claims about US, and throwing our opinions out the window for being different than yours.
You have absolutely no right to be making claims about Me, you have no right to be making claims about Sig.
You only have grounds to be making claims about yourself, and thats IT.

You're making TONS of objective claims built solely on your opinion.


You know what there is absolutely no excuse for?
Your behavior, and how you are treating me, and everybody else here.
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NS_CHAIN 2666-2862-7656
#75like2napPosted 4/5/2013 4:01:17 AM
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
like2nap posted...
Wii motion plus doesn't add missing settings nor does it make up for them. That's the end of the story.


And do the settings add or make up for wii motion plus?


Also, you're being completely ridiculous.
You have an opinion, and you don't have to keep it to yourself.
But you're just barely falling short of DEMANDING that others agree with you.

And making claims about US, and throwing our opinions out the window for being different than yours.
You have absolutely no right to be making claims about Me, you have no right to be making claims about Sig.
You only have grounds to be making claims about yourself, and thats IT.

You're making TONS of objective claims built solely on your opinion.


You know what there is absolutely no excuse for?
Your behavior, and how you are treating me, and everybody else here.


It's not an opinion that Black Ops 2 has more settings and as a result the pointer is more precise and more accurate. It's not an opinion that Wii motion plus doesn't make up for them. The setting are not there. Wii motion plus doesn't add or duplicate them. Therefore the level of preicision and accuracy you get in Black Ops 2 can never be duplicated by C2. It's just not possible and that' is also not an opinion.
#76_SignalPosted 4/5/2013 5:03:41 AM
like2nap posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
like2nap posted...
Wii motion plus doesn't add missing settings nor does it make up for them. That's the end of the story.


And do the settings add or make up for wii motion plus?


Also, you're being completely ridiculous.
You have an opinion, and you don't have to keep it to yourself.
But you're just barely falling short of DEMANDING that others agree with you.

And making claims about US, and throwing our opinions out the window for being different than yours.
You have absolutely no right to be making claims about Me, you have no right to be making claims about Sig.
You only have grounds to be making claims about yourself, and thats IT.

You're making TONS of objective claims built solely on your opinion.


You know what there is absolutely no excuse for?
Your behavior, and how you are treating me, and everybody else here.


It's not an opinion that Black Ops 2 has more settings and as a result the pointer is more precise and more accurate. It's not an opinion that Wii motion plus doesn't make up for them. The setting are not there. Wii motion plus doesn't add or duplicate them. Therefore the level of preicision and accuracy you get in Black Ops 2 can never be duplicated by C2. It's just not possible and that' is also not an opinion.


You're confusing input gain adjustment and software smoothness for accuracy and precision, and either don't understand what those words actually mean, or are just misusing them.

In a game which doesn't support Motion Plus, it is impossible for the Wiimote to collect positional data more precisely than a game which does support Motion plus because it's missing an entire component of the positional dataset. This is not my opinion. It is physics.

Did you read the article I linked about how Motion Plus works? It's an interview with the developers of the gyroscope used in the Motion + controller.

I agree that the reticle movement in BOPS2 does feel very smooth. However, any "feeling" of increased precision is simply software smoothing compensating for the jerkiness which is inherent in only using the accelerometers in the standard Wiimote controller. Most likely C2 doesn't use this smoothing if Motion Plus is not enabled, because the reticle does seems to look a little jerky to me. But, this is still a positional dataset which is more accurate that a smooth moving reticle without Motion Plus.

You really should read the article if you haven't already. Remember back a few years ago when Ted Turner started colorizing old black and white movies? In case you're too young, he basically had artists color the image in every frame of the films. Sure, the films looked like they were in color, but the colors were added post production and not accurate representations of the colors on the set during filming. Again, missing data that is compensated for. Same thing with games that don't support Motion Plus.

Continuing to argue that a positional dataset collected from a standard Wiimote can be more accurate or precise than a dataset collected from a Motion Plus controller is just going to further invalidate everything you're saying. Just because the software developer calls the setting adjustment "sensitivity" doesn't mean that's what it is. I assure you that the hardware and the software always collects the dataset at the highest "sensitivity" possible, and all those settings do is determine how many pixels to move the reticle for a given input. Using a radio analogy, those sensitivity settings are more like a volume adjustment than frequency tuning.
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Conduit2FC(36): 3354-2948-5226
#77CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 4/5/2013 6:06:26 AM
like2nap posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
like2nap posted...
Wii motion plus doesn't add missing settings nor does it make up for them. That's the end of the story.


And do the settings add or make up for wii motion plus?


Also, you're being completely ridiculous.
You have an opinion, and you don't have to keep it to yourself.
But you're just barely falling short of DEMANDING that others agree with you.

And making claims about US, and throwing our opinions out the window for being different than yours.
You have absolutely no right to be making claims about Me, you have no right to be making claims about Sig.
You only have grounds to be making claims about yourself, and thats IT.

You're making TONS of objective claims built solely on your opinion.


You know what there is absolutely no excuse for?
Your behavior, and how you are treating me, and everybody else here.


It's not an opinion that Black Ops 2 has more settings and as a result the pointer is more precise and more accurate. It's not an opinion that Wii motion plus doesn't make up for them. The setting are not there. Wii motion plus doesn't add or duplicate them. Therefore the level of preicision and accuracy you get in Black Ops 2 can never be duplicated by C2. It's just not possible and that' is also not an opinion.


Except there is a lot more that plays into it besides just control options, including WM+ and just overall behavior.
There is also the fact that precision and accuracy are pretty subjective in this context.
I also challenge the idea that the control options are really a limiting factor in accuracy, but rather something that allows you to get the feel you want, and to not have to adapt.

Personally, I cannot even imagine better accuracy than what I've been able to pull off in Con2 by making ANY controller changes. that's specifically talking about ASD and HVS.
I know WM+ makes a difference in my accuracy, but I normally don't bother turning it on aside from battle ladder matches.

But what I was specifically talking about was sig was expressing her own opinion and her own reasoning. She was arguing why she felt the way she does, and you were rebuttaling her making claims as to why she can't feel a certain way.
In effect, you had turned it into an argument about sig, not an argument about controls.
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NS_CHAIN 2666-2862-7656
#78Hawke0Posted 4/5/2013 6:07:43 AM
like2nap posted...
Hawke0 posted...
like2nap posted...
B05S_Brennan posted...
OK, I've played with the controls on BO2, and it's not quite as customizable as you say it is. I'm going to make a post that goes in to more detail later.

And don't call us fanboys for having a different opinion. If we're being C2 fanboys, then you're being a bit of a CoD fanboy right now.


Hardly. I won't defend BLOPS 2's flaws. It's just right now it doesn't have any. When it first came out it was horrible. The controls were bad, the lag was bad, and it wasn't balanced. It was at the top of my list for most disappointing game ever. Knocked C2 right out of the top spot. Easily. I will never preorder another FPS game (not just COD. I said FPS game) because of this. It was the first one I preordered and it was horrible when it came out. It wasn't until like the third patch that they got the controls right and it wasn't until the most recent one that they made the game as balanced as it can be. Not that there was a lot left to balance at that point cause they fixed most everything, but now I don't think they need to change anything else. It also didn't have any gamebreaking glitches and what glitches were there are fixed. The game is almost perfect now, but it took like 4 months of patches to get it that way.


Say that on the BO2 board, and you'll be laughed right off the board.


Every current COD game is the worst game ever to "COD fans". I never understand that. When the next COD game comes out, they'll hate it, and talk about how great Black Ops 2 is.


I know, but are you saying all their opinions don't hold ANY water? Still, make a topic saying that there, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xwT60UbOZnI#t=27s
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"After this generation, Sony and Microsoft will have so much money they won't want to make any more consoles"-Michael Pachter
#79B05S_BrennanPosted 4/5/2013 7:27:18 AM
I'm gonna make an in-depth post about the pros and cons of both. BO2 doesn't do everything better than C2 though. It does control well in some ways, and the amount of options are nice, but there were a few mistakes made.
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"God put obvious limitations on our intelligence, but none whatsoever on our stupidity". -Fr.John Corapi
#80like2napPosted 4/5/2013 11:22:05 AM
_Signal posted...


You're confusing input gain adjustment and software smoothness for accuracy and precision, and either don't understand what those words actually mean, or are just misusing them.

In a game which doesn't support Motion Plus, it is impossible for the Wiimote to collect positional data more precisely than a game which does support Motion plus because it's missing an entire component of the positional dataset. This is not my opinion. It is physics.

Did you read the article I linked about how Motion Plus works? It's an interview with the developers of the gyroscope used in the Motion + controller.

I agree that the reticle movement in BOPS2 does feel very smooth. However, any "feeling" of increased precision is simply software smoothing compensating for the jerkiness which is inherent in only using the accelerometers in the standard Wiimote controller. Most likely C2 doesn't use this smoothing if Motion Plus is not enabled, because the reticle does seems to look a little jerky to me. But, this is still a positional dataset which is more accurate that a smooth moving reticle without Motion Plus.

You really should read the article if you haven't already. Remember back a few years ago when Ted Turner started colorizing old black and white movies? In case you're too young, he basically had artists color the image in every frame of the films. Sure, the films looked like they were in color, but the colors were added post production and not accurate representations of the colors on the set during filming. Again, missing data that is compensated for. Same thing with games that don't support Motion Plus.

Continuing to argue that a positional dataset collected from a standard Wiimote can be more accurate or precise than a dataset collected from a Motion Plus controller is just going to further invalidate everything you're saying. Just because the software developer calls the setting adjustment "sensitivity" doesn't mean that's what it is. I assure you that the hardware and the software always collects the dataset at the highest "sensitivity" possible, and all those settings do is determine how many pixels to move the reticle for a given input. Using a radio analogy, those sensitivity settings are more like a volume adjustment than frequency tuning.


The setting has to be there for Wii motion plus to make it more accurate. If a setting is not there, wii motion plus does not duplicate it. It makes the settings it has more accurate, but that doesn't make up for missing settings.
The ADS is a good example. It's horrible in this game. Wii motion plus doesn't make it better because the settings are not there for it to make them better.

Is wii motion plus more accurate? It can be. If done correctly. Call it a "feeling" created by the software smoothing out the imprecision of the standard wiimote. Call it whatever you want. It doesn't matter what you call it. It doesn't matter why. The controls are more precise in Black Ops 2.

And I did not read your article. I know how wii motion plus works. I know what it can do. I've read plenty about it in the past. I've also played and mastered every single Wii game that uses it with the exception of Wii sports resort. I just didn't buy that one.