Conduit 2 is boring.

#81Hawke0Posted 4/5/2013 12:23:55 PM
like2nap posted...
_Signal posted...


You're confusing input gain adjustment and software smoothness for accuracy and precision, and either don't understand what those words actually mean, or are just misusing them.

In a game which doesn't support Motion Plus, it is impossible for the Wiimote to collect positional data more precisely than a game which does support Motion plus because it's missing an entire component of the positional dataset. This is not my opinion. It is physics.

Did you read the article I linked about how Motion Plus works? It's an interview with the developers of the gyroscope used in the Motion + controller.

I agree that the reticle movement in BOPS2 does feel very smooth. However, any "feeling" of increased precision is simply software smoothing compensating for the jerkiness which is inherent in only using the accelerometers in the standard Wiimote controller. Most likely C2 doesn't use this smoothing if Motion Plus is not enabled, because the reticle does seems to look a little jerky to me. But, this is still a positional dataset which is more accurate that a smooth moving reticle without Motion Plus.

You really should read the article if you haven't already. Remember back a few years ago when Ted Turner started colorizing old black and white movies? In case you're too young, he basically had artists color the image in every frame of the films. Sure, the films looked like they were in color, but the colors were added post production and not accurate representations of the colors on the set during filming. Again, missing data that is compensated for. Same thing with games that don't support Motion Plus.

Continuing to argue that a positional dataset collected from a standard Wiimote can be more accurate or precise than a dataset collected from a Motion Plus controller is just going to further invalidate everything you're saying. Just because the software developer calls the setting adjustment "sensitivity" doesn't mean that's what it is. I assure you that the hardware and the software always collects the dataset at the highest "sensitivity" possible, and all those settings do is determine how many pixels to move the reticle for a given input. Using a radio analogy, those sensitivity settings are more like a volume adjustment than frequency tuning.


The setting has to be there for Wii motion plus to make it more accurate. If a setting is not there, wii motion plus does not duplicate it. It makes the settings it has more accurate, but that doesn't make up for missing settings.
The ADS is a good example. It's horrible in this game. Wii motion plus doesn't make it better because the settings are not there for it to make them better.

Is wii motion plus more accurate? It can be. If done correctly. Call it a "feeling" created by the software smoothing out the imprecision of the standard wiimote. Call it whatever you want. It doesn't matter what you call it. It doesn't matter why. The controls are more precise in Black Ops 2.

And I did not read your article. I know how wii motion plus works. I know what it can do. I've read plenty about it in the past. I've also played and mastered every single Wii game that uses it with the exception of Wii sports resort. I just didn't buy that one.


Its a superior piece of technology against an inferior, but well implemented piece of technology.
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"Saying Metroid Other M is better than the Prime Trilogy because you hate shooters is like saying Aliens:CM is better than FF7 because you hate RPGs.
#82like2napPosted 4/5/2013 12:55:29 PM
Hawke0 posted...

Its a superior piece of technology against an inferior, but well implemented piece of technology.


That's a good way to put it.

@Sig:

ADS isn't all. There are no settings for scoped weapons either. The only single thing Conduit 2 does well is hipfire. It has settings for those and that is smooth. That's it though and I don't even like that because of the lack of camera styles (I think they're called that. Or camera types maybe?). This game has 3. The same feature in Black Ops has 40 different settings.

The hipfire settings are the only settings and they are applied to all aspects of aiming. How anyone can call that better is beyond my understanding. It's just not. It's a clunky broken mess.
#83CmoIsDaNam3Posted 4/5/2013 1:26:48 PM
like2nap posted...
Hawke0 posted...

Its a superior piece of technology against an inferior, but well implemented piece of technology.


That's a good way to put it.

@Sig:

ADS isn't all. There are no settings for scoped weapons either. The only single thing Conduit 2 does well is hipfire. It has settings for those and that is smooth. That's it though and I don't even like that because of the lack of camera styles (I think they're called that. Or camera types maybe?). This game has 3. The same feature in Black Ops has 40 different settings.

The hipfire settings are the only settings and they are applied to all aspects of aiming. How anyone can call that better is beyond my understanding. It's just not. It's a clunky broken mess.


Well, I don't think its ALL bad, because if it was people wouldn't be able to use the PR. :P
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#84CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 4/5/2013 3:00:01 PM
I think you're misusing the term accurate or something.

Precision is going to be like the sharpness setting on your TV. High precision is extremely harsh, And I'm not just talking about controls.

When you say the setting has to be there for the precision to exist... IDK what you mean.


Here's the other thing.
Camera, and pointer are two separate objects.
When you say accurate, I think pointer, in which case I have to give Con2 the gold metal.

Camera has some quirks, and actually a few glitches. They do not affect my performance I feel.
I'd go into depth on why I don't think I'd be at a real disadvantage if you ported your controls over to con2. But I'm on my phone.
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#85_SignalPosted 4/5/2013 3:03:33 PM
like2nap posted...

@Sig:

... It's a clunky broken mess.



It really is just a matter of personal taste. A minority of people seem to have trouble with the ADS in C2. It's never really bothered me. I use the Scar and Phase Rifle scoped all the time. I prefer HC and try not to use Lockon even in Grab Bag Pubs.

Some people are constantly fiddling with their settings. I never touched mine until I started playing on the Wii U. Maybe the more you move the settings away from default, the more pronounced the ADS problem with scopes becomes. And since I'm pretty much still playing at default settings, the problem isn't that bad.

But I really have no idea why some people seem to have more trouble with the ADS sensitivity.

For all the adjustments I've made in BOPS2, my settings are still very, very close to the default.

As I conceded before, having separate ADS adjustments in BOPS2 is a nice feature. I like it. It's definitely a plus. But, going back to the "personal taste" aspect of it, I find the gameplay in C2 more engaging, and also more fun. So, while BOPS2 has better graphics, and bigger maps, it's not enough to pull me away from the more fluid movement and varied combat encounters in C2.

I'm sure I'll go back to BOPS2 eventually, but I still prefer playing C2 right now.
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#86like2napPosted 4/5/2013 3:37:28 PM
I read part of your article. I think I know where it's going, but before I make any assumptions, I want to finish it. Which will likely be tomorrow. Must leave the laptop to attend other things.
#87CheslukPosted 4/5/2013 5:59:32 PM
From: CHAINMAILLEKID | #071
I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

I can't say I'm too surprised. Some of you seem to spend more time humping this game's leg than you do actually playing it.

From: _Signal | #083
But I really have no idea why some people seem to have more trouble with the ADS sensitivity.

It's the simple fact that you have no control over it. Outside of the PR and SR, ADS sensitivity is different from your normal settings and there's no way to change it. Some people are okay with having their ADS be ten times slower than their hipfire and some people would rather their ADS be ten times faster than their hipfire. Had it been implemented as a main function and not an afterthought, this game would've been regarded as an even bigger mess than it already is.
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#88Hawke0Posted 4/5/2013 9:09:47 PM
Both games have good hipfire.
CoD has vastly superior iron sight aiming, C2 has better sniping controls.
/discussion
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"Saying Metroid Other M is better than the Prime Trilogy because you hate shooters is like saying Aliens:CM is better than FF7 because you hate RPGs.
#89CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 4/5/2013 10:48:08 PM
Chesluk posted...
From: CHAINMAILLEKID | #071
I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

I can't say I'm too surprised. Some of you seem to spend more time humping this game's leg than you do actually playing it.


I've been more vocal about my complaints than anybody else here, as you well know.
I've made myself a very unpopular person for just about every demographic because of my vocal complaints. Even being harassed for it by you, which shouldn't surprise anybody, because you harass everyone.

Also, Don't go around throwing around petty insults to the community.
This community is fine, and people are justified in defending what they enjoy.
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NS_CHAIN 2666-2862-7656
#90like2napPosted 4/6/2013 12:32:50 AM
Hawke0 posted...
Both games have good hipfire.
CoD has vastly superior iron sight aiming, C2 has better sniping controls.
/discussion


It may have better sniper controls than black ops 2 because the sniper controls, at least for the wiimote, on black ops 2 are completely jacked up. It has insane sniper sway. I don't know why either. The DA controls for snipers in this game are much better and have less sway. That has been a complaint since the game came out and has yet to be addressed for whatever reason. Every other COD game, from MWR onward, has better sniping controls than C2 though.

COD (Black ops, MW3, and BlOPS 2) does have vastly superior iron sight, or ADS, aiming. There is no comparison between COD and C2 int that regard. Why anyone would think otherwise is beyond anything I can understand. My statements have nothing to do with being a bigger fan of one series or the other. I simply state things as they are.

And I still haven't read the full Wii motion plus article, but so far I have learned nothing new. Wii motion plus is designed to help with motion tracking in games such as Red Steal 2 and Skyward Sword. COD's aiming system is based on the IR pointer controls and has nothing to do with the gyroscope that Motion plus improves upon.

I also haven't replied all the post to every one of my posts in this topic. Don't feel like you are being ignored if I didn't reply to something you said. I only have so much time in my day so please don't feel like I'm ignoring any of you. I'll try to get to them, but I make no guarantees.