Conduit 2 is boring.

#91like2napPosted 4/6/2013 2:56:41 AM
_Signal posted...
like2nap posted...

@Sig:

... It's a clunky broken mess.



It really is just a matter of personal taste. A minority of people seem to have trouble with the ADS in C2. It's never really bothered me. I use the Scar and Phase Rifle scoped all the time. I prefer HC and try not to use Lockon even in Grab Bag Pubs.

Some people are constantly fiddling with their settings. I never touched mine until I started playing on the Wii U. Maybe the more you move the settings away from default, the more pronounced the ADS problem with scopes becomes. And since I'm pretty much still playing at default settings, the problem isn't that bad.

But I really have no idea why some people seem to have more trouble with the ADS sensitivity.

For all the adjustments I've made in BOPS2, my settings are still very, very close to the default.

As I conceded before, having separate ADS adjustments in BOPS2 is a nice feature. I like it. It's definitely a plus. But, going back to the "personal taste" aspect of it, I find the gameplay in C2 more engaging, and also more fun. So, while BOPS2 has better graphics, and bigger maps, it's not enough to pull me away from the more fluid movement and varied combat encounters in C2.

I'm sure I'll go back to BOPS2 eventually, but I still prefer playing C2 right now.


Liking the engagements is one thing, but I don't see how you or anyone else can't see the faults in the ADS aiming or the scope aiming. I don't understand how you can't see how vastly superior COD is in that regard. It baffles me. It is simply is much better. Your failure to realize that doesn't change what it is. It has nothing to do with personal tastes or opinion.

And there were some questions about what I mean when I say precision and accuracy. Accuracy meaning being able to get the controls to do what I want when I want. To duplicate my hand movement and point where I want it to point simply based on my natural reaction to seeing a target in front of me. C2 simply can't do that. You have to work around it's limitations. There is no way possible to get it to do what I want it to do because the settings don't exist. Wii motion plus or no, it's only as good as the developer makes it and HVS left out some crucial customization settings. Without those you are simply left with whatever settings HVS built in which are not ideal to me and cannot touch the accuracy you can achieve in COD. In COD, you can customize them however you want. I can make the cursor follow every slight movement of my hand whether ADS, hipfiring, or sniping (BLOPS 2 being the exception in sniping. But it's predecessors are fine). In C2 you have to move how the game wants you too since there is no way to change it's settings. I don't understand how anyone can't see the flaws in that after playing a game like Black Ops 2 or MW3. The difference is so obvious to me. I'm also not surprised that someone can't see the difference though. Some people can't tell the difference between a game running at 60fps and and a game running at 30fps. That too is obvious to me.

When I say precision I mean perfect pixel-to-pixel movement as I move my hand slightly from one pixel to the other at the exact pace that I want to do so.. C2 cannot accomplish this. You have to move the remote within the restrictions of the predetermined settings and there is now way to change it. Can someone like that? Sure they can. But saying you can't find something that more precisely and accurately reflects your hand movement in COD is simply not true. The settings are there. You just have to make use of them.
#92Hawke0Posted 4/6/2013 7:58:05 AM
Stopped reading after you said CoD had good Wiimote sniping controls.
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"Saying Metroid Other M is better than the Prime Trilogy because you hate shooters is like saying Aliens:CM is better than FF7 because you hate RPGs.
#93Orient33Posted 4/6/2013 8:02:54 AM
Hawke0 posted...
Stopped reading after you said CoD had good Wiimote sniping controls.


They weren't too bad on Modern Warfare Reflex imo. The turning part was a bit difficult when scoped (I needed to adjust that part) but the rest was pretty ok. I remember killing 3 guys in 3 seconds once when scoped in lol.
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C2 FC: (Orient) 3310-7730-0201
#94Hawke0Posted 4/6/2013 8:17:47 AM
Didn't W@W have the best sniping controls?
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"Saying Metroid Other M is better than the Prime Trilogy because you hate shooters is like saying Aliens:CM is better than FF7 because you hate RPGs.
#95CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 4/6/2013 11:12:10 AM(edited)
OK, so....

For the difference between ADS and hipfireing, and not being able to adjust your controls for each of them, that is overcome by the lockon button.
You don't need to make your own deadzone or turning speed settings for hipfire, because hipfire has its own separate setting that takes away control of the camera from the dead-zones, and just overrides it anyway.

So hipfiring, you still want something functional, but there really isn't the need to get all worked up trying to optimize it.

That means you can use your customization options to optimize for ADS and Scope.
Personally, I've never felt the need for having a separate mode for both ADS AND scope, never even crossed my mind. To me, they seem to want the exact same thing.
So that is what I've done. And I've been able to do really well with it.

That doesn't really help with with hardcore mode of course... But...
This game was not designed around hardcore mode, it was designed and optimized around GB.
And this I don't mind, because I love GB, and don't particularly like HC.


Now, as far as offering finer deadzone and camera controls.
You can't really buffer your deadzone in con2 using control settings. And that really is too bad.
However, there is still an option for you which really really reduces the need, and I feel the utilization of which provides near equal advantage. And that is simply strafing to make fine camera adjustments near the boarder of your deadzone.
This really does have a huge effect, and is probably a more controllable solution than buffered deadzones.
That is to say, even if the game had buffered dead zones, I imagine good players would rely on them as little as possible, and instead be almost entirely be relying on strafing.

The only pinch is where you walk into a piece of rubble you didn't see or something, It then forces you to rely on dead zones. And in Con2, that usually just means bailing on your attempt and finding a new location, because the extra time it would take to fix things will likely get you killed.

The last thing you mentioned at one point was camera modes.
Con2 actually only has one functional camera mode.

X Crouched
Y Always.

X Look is actually glitched. It will actually cause certain guns to fire incorrectly and the shot WONT land anywhere near where the reticule was pointing. The largest affected gun is the SR.

And of course the Y look options are all terrible except for always, though you could arguably make a few of them work for specialist purposes.



Anyway, so while there are definitely options that would make things more convenient. I am able to work around nearly all of them, and at the end of the day, my accuracy and my ability to line up shots is not really detrimented by it, I was merely inconvenienced, and made to play in a way I otherwise would not.

The reason I preferred Con2 through all of this over BO2, is because for me the most important feature has, and always will be the pointer. If I can have an accurate pointer, then I will figure out the rest.
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#96_SignalPosted 4/6/2013 12:50:05 PM
like2nap posted...


Look, I have a really simple solution that's going to end this whole mess.

I'll play Conduit 2 and you play BOPS2.





But seriously, when I have time, I will try to setup an experiment with a LASER pointer attached to my Wiimote. I'll adjust it to match the reticle when it's in the center of the screen then move it around in both games (C2 with Motion Plus turned on and off).

I'll record everything with my Flip camera and post to my YT account.

Then we can see which game tracks both subtle and gross hand movements more precisely.

I will have to get some help attaching the LASER to my Wiimote in such a way that it's adjustable but I really want to do this.

Obviously it will require adjustments to the "sensitivity" and dead zone of the controller in both games, so I'll plan to fiddle with that as well.

When I have everything setup, if you will pm me your BOPS2 sensitivity settings, I will also test those in addition to whatever "best" settings I can determine.

I really can't think of a better way of putting an end to the accuracy and precision debate, however, these results would only for aiming, not movement.

I'm sure there must be a diagnostic method to display the actual X and Y screen coordinates in real time, but I have no idea about that.
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Conduit2FC(36): 3354-2948-5226
#97like2napPosted 4/6/2013 1:14:40 PM
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
OK, so....

For the difference between ADS and hipfireing, and not being able to adjust your controls for each of them, that is overcome by the lockon button.
You don't need to make your own deadzone or turning speed settings for hipfire, because hipfire has its own separate setting that takes away control of the camera from the dead-zones, and just overrides it anyway.

So hipfiring, you still want something functional, but there really isn't the need to get all worked up trying to optimize it.

That means you can use your customization options to optimize for ADS and Scope.
Personally, I've never felt the need for having a separate mode for both ADS AND scope, never even crossed my mind. To me, they seem to want the exact same thing.
So that is what I've done. And I've been able to do really well with it.

That doesn't really help with with hardcore mode of course... But...
This game was not designed around hardcore mode, it was designed and optimized around GB.
And this I don't mind, because I love GB, and don't particularly like HC.


Now, as far as offering finer deadzone and camera controls.
You can't really buffer your deadzone in con2 using control settings. And that really is too bad.
However, there is still an option for you which really really reduces the need, and I feel the utilization of which provides near equal advantage. And that is simply strafing to make fine camera adjustments near the boarder of your deadzone.
This really does have a huge effect, and is probably a more controllable solution than buffered deadzones.
That is to say, even if the game had buffered dead zones, I imagine good players would rely on them as little as possible, and instead be almost entirely be relying on strafing.

The only pinch is where you walk into a piece of rubble you didn't see or something, It then forces you to rely on dead zones. And in Con2, that usually just means bailing on your attempt and finding a new location, because the extra time it would take to fix things will likely get you killed.

The last thing you mentioned at one point was camera modes.
Con2 actually only has one functional camera mode.

X Crouched
Y Always.

X Look is actually glitched. It will actually cause certain guns to fire incorrectly and the shot WONT land anywhere near where the reticule was pointing. The largest affected gun is the SR.

And of course the Y look options are all terrible except for always, though you could arguably make a few of them work for specialist purposes.



Anyway, so while there are definitely options that would make things more convenient. I am able to work around nearly all of them, and at the end of the day, my accuracy and my ability to line up shots is not really detrimented by it, I was merely inconvenienced, and made to play in a way I otherwise would not.

The reason I preferred Con2 through all of this over BO2, is because for me the most important feature has, and always will be the pointer. If I can have an accurate pointer, then I will figure out the rest.


You're backing up what I said. In C2 you have to work around it's limitations. Which can be done. it's not like it's horrible, but MW3 and Black Ops 2 don't really have any limitations. You can do what you want to do as opposed to doing only what the game allows you to do because has a limited control scheme. It's an inferior design any way you look at it.
#98like2napPosted 4/6/2013 1:15:29 PM
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
OK, so....

For the difference between ADS and hipfireing, and not being able to adjust your controls for each of them, that is overcome by the lockon button.
You don't need to make your own deadzone or turning speed settings for hipfire, because hipfire has its own separate setting that takes away control of the camera from the dead-zones, and just overrides it anyway.

So hipfiring, you still want something functional, but there really isn't the need to get all worked up trying to optimize it.

That means you can use your customization options to optimize for ADS and Scope.
Personally, I've never felt the need for having a separate mode for both ADS AND scope, never even crossed my mind. To me, they seem to want the exact same thing.
So that is what I've done. And I've been able to do really well with it.

That doesn't really help with with hardcore mode of course... But...
This game was not designed around hardcore mode, it was designed and optimized around GB.
And this I don't mind, because I love GB, and don't particularly like HC.


Now, as far as offering finer deadzone and camera controls.
You can't really buffer your deadzone in con2 using control settings. And that really is too bad.
However, there is still an option for you which really really reduces the need, and I feel the utilization of which provides near equal advantage. And that is simply strafing to make fine camera adjustments near the boarder of your deadzone.
This really does have a huge effect, and is probably a more controllable solution than buffered deadzones.
That is to say, even if the game had buffered dead zones, I imagine good players would rely on them as little as possible, and instead be almost entirely be relying on strafing.

The only pinch is where you walk into a piece of rubble you didn't see or something, It then forces you to rely on dead zones. And in Con2, that usually just means bailing on your attempt and finding a new location, because the extra time it would take to fix things will likely get you killed.

The last thing you mentioned at one point was camera modes.
Con2 actually only has one functional camera mode.

X Crouched
Y Always.

X Look is actually glitched. It will actually cause certain guns to fire incorrectly and the shot WONT land anywhere near where the reticule was pointing. The largest affected gun is the SR.

And of course the Y look options are all terrible except for always, though you could arguably make a few of them work for specialist purposes.



Anyway, so while there are definitely options that would make things more convenient. I am able to work around nearly all of them, and at the end of the day, my accuracy and my ability to line up shots is not really detrimented by it, I was merely inconvenienced, and made to play in a way I otherwise would not.

The reason I preferred Con2 through all of this over BO2, is because for me the most important feature has, and always will be the pointer. If I can have an accurate pointer, then I will figure out the rest.


You're backing up what I said. In C2 you have to work around it's limitations. Which can be done. it's not like it's horrible, but MW3 and Black Ops 2 don't really have any limitations. You can do what you want to do as opposed to doing only what the game allows you to do because has a limited control scheme. It's an inferior design any way you look at it.
#99_SignalPosted 4/6/2013 1:31:40 PM(edited)
like2nap posted...


You're backing up what I said. In C2 you have to work around it's limitations. Which can be done. it's not like it's horrible, but MW3 and Black Ops 2 don't really have any limitations. You can do what you want to do as opposed to doing only what the game allows you to do because has a limited control scheme. It's an inferior design any way you look at it.




I just bought this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AimShot-Laser-Sight-With-Rail-Mount-KT-6132-/380601839528?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item589da32fa8


LOL, I hope you don't think there will be a 1:1 relationship of hand movement to reticle movement in either game without adjusting the settings. There is no way. There are too many vairables like distance from the TV, size of the TV, aspect ratio of the TV, and the vertical position of the sensor bar relative to the Wiimote.

My point was, that I will make as many adjustments as possible to both games in order to achieve the best 1:1 tracking, not that I would have to work around C2's limitations.

Oh Gee... I just now noticed that you think MW3 is also better. Well, I can test that one too.
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Conduit2FC(36): 3354-2948-5226
#100CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 4/6/2013 1:28:20 PM
It only backs up your claim that there is more options in CO2, and that CON2 is more limited.

But it counters everything else.

And it does not make it "inferior any way you look at it".
Sometimes thing just are what they are.
Very few FPSs that I play even offer control options aside from invert.
The way they control and play is all different from each-other, and thats OK because thats just part of what the game is.
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