Explosive Focus SPAS

#21B05S_BrennanPosted 3/31/2013 4:27:46 PM
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Mid range weapons much?


They're more "all-range" weapons.

Besides, the spas is unique in being able kill extremely quickly in close range w/o any perks.

All the rest, except the Carbonizer, are going to depend on a primary perk to make them effective in CC.


All those weapons work well without perks. What primary upgrades do any of them require?
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"God put obvious limitations on our intelligence, but none whatsoever on our stupidity". -Fr.John Corapi
#22_SignalPosted 3/31/2013 5:40:25 PM(edited)
xXAISPXx posted...
I use Ammo Salvage more commonly and I still have success with another SPAS. Explosive Focus doesn't affect the SPAS too much but rather increases your resistance to certain bullet hits.


Actually, explosive focus does make a difference in the effectiveness of the SPAS. Somewhere there is a thread about it here. I don't remember the specifics regarding the reduction in the number of pellet hits, but it does improve SPAS performance.

I think Mike was the first one to bring it to everyone's attention, perhaps about 6 months ago, and after that, it seemed like everyone with a SPAS loadout had explosive focus.

It's just like any other part of the game though, use it with the SPAS if you like, there's nothing "cheap" about it, but it definitely does make a difference. When you consider the amount of time required to pump/cycle the SPAS for another shot, reducing the total number of shots fired by one substantially improves the SPAS.

The SPAS is a OHKO weapon at close range to near-mid range, and this without using ALT fire. The only other weapons that are OHKO (besides the SMAW which most people openly despise) are hindered in some way.

The Strike Rifle requires charging which takes a moment or two.
The Deatomizer requires Alt fire, and even then the bolas projectile moves so slowly that it can usually be easily evaded.
The HVS 45 requires a headshot, which usually requires Alt fire.
The PR at close range is pretty much relegated to a lucky shot, since the scope is useless at close range.

Say what you will, but the only weapon equal to the SPAS at close range is the Sticky Rad.



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#23B05S_BrennanPosted 3/31/2013 8:49:36 PM
Mike was the one who brought it to everyone's attention that EF reduces SPAS damage by 30%. As far as I know, it doesn't make a difference in pellets to kill. It certainly doesn't make a noticeable difference.
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"God put obvious limitations on our intelligence, but none whatsoever on our stupidity". -Fr.John Corapi
#24_SignalPosted 3/31/2013 8:54:10 PM
B05S_Brennan posted...
Mike was the one who brought it to everyone's attention that EF reduces SPAS damage by 30%. As far as I know, it doesn't make a difference in pellets to kill. It certainly doesn't make a noticeable difference.


I'm pretty sure he also said that it increased SPAS damage by some unknown splash damage method. I'll have to try and find the thread.

It should be pretty easy to test.
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Conduit2FC(36): 3354-2948-5226
#25xXAISPXxPosted 3/31/2013 9:02:37 PM
_Signal posted...
xXAISPXx posted...
I use Ammo Salvage more commonly and I still have success with another SPAS. Explosive Focus doesn't affect the SPAS too much but rather increases your resistance to certain bullet hits.


Actually, explosive focus does make a difference in the effectiveness of the SPAS. Somewhere there is a thread about it here. I don't remember the specifics regarding the reduction in the number of pellet hits, but it does improve SPAS performance.

I think Mike was the first one to bring it to everyone's attention, perhaps about 6 months ago, and after that, it seemed like everyone with a SPAS loadout had explosive focus.

It's just like any other part of the game though, use it with the SPAS if you like, there's nothing "cheap" about it, but it definitely does make a difference. When you consider the amount of time required to pump/cycle the SPAS for another shot, reducing the total number of shots fired by one substantially improves the SPAS.

The SPAS is a OHKO weapon at close range to near-mid range, and this without using ALT fire. The only other weapons that are OHKO (besides the SMAW which most people openly despise) are hindered in some way.

The Strike Rifle requires charging which takes a moment or two.
The Deatomizer requires Alt fire, and even then the bolas projectile moves so slowly that it can usually be easily evaded.
The HVS 45 requires a headshot, which usually requires Alt fire.
The PR at close range is pretty much relegated to a lucky shot, since the scope is useless at close range.

Say what you will, but the only weapon equal to the SPAS at close range is the Sticky Rad.




It's one of the only weapons that can counter the SPAS at close range. I give you the Explosive Focus perhaps does affect the SPAS, but it just isn't noticeable.
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A limited gamer but welcomes all games.
#26_SignalPosted 3/31/2013 9:33:58 PM
My apologies. I remembered incorrectly.

Here is the thread I was thinking of.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/991817-conduit-2/64533867
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Conduit2FC(36): 3354-2948-5226
#27Darcsen8Posted 4/1/2013 8:37:25 AM
Personally, I think that Double Ballistics SPAS > Explosive SPAS. I usually get much more easier killed by Ballistics Spas rather than Explosive SPAS, I don't understand the popularity of the explosive set.

If you used Explosive Spas to counter Explosive weapons (SMAW/TPC), I understand. But to use it to improve the effeciency of the SPAS, seems weird choice to me. I have always considered Explosive Focus as a Defensive perk.

Heavy Armor = Defense against Ballistics / Energy
Explosive Focus = Defense against Explosives

I prefer a room filled with Explosive SPAS than a room with Ballistics SPAS :X
#28DerppopotamusPosted 4/1/2013 10:36:54 AM
B05S_Brennan posted...
Derppopotamus posted...
I dunno man, it kinda feels like you're lying to me and you know it.


Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean I'm lying.


Ugh, not really what I was talking about. You mentioned a bunch of guns knowing that the SPAS outclasses all of them at close range. Do I have to mention SPAS is your favorite gun to keep you from playing dumb again?

We're talking about what guns do what, no need to pull that "It's my opinion" bullcrap.

B05S_Brennan posted...
Derppopotamus posted...
You can't exactly force guys into close range with a Carby, nor would the MP5K be considered OP with any perk you give it.


I didn't say any of them were OP, I was saying I think they get just as much benefit from EF as the SPAS.


My bad, I didn't know you were talking about what guns smell nice. I thought we were still on the topic.

But seriously? The topic is "Is EF SPAS Overpowered?" You mentioned a bunch of guns saying they get the same benefit. So If SPAS with EF is considered OP then they should too. But thats not right, all the guns get the same statistical benefit, but in practice the SPAS gets a large benefit. Many of the guns that may be used to protect a player from a close-quarters SPAS attack are useless against EF.
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#29B05S_BrennanPosted 4/1/2013 2:01:28 PM
Derppopotamus posted...
Ugh, not really what I was talking about. You mentioned a bunch of guns knowing that the SPAS outclasses all of them at close range. Do I have to mention SPAS is your favorite gun to keep you from playing dumb again?

The thing is, the SPAS doesn't outclass those guns at close range in my experience. They all have their strengths and weaknesses at CC.

We're talking about what guns do what, no need to pull that "It's my opinion" bullcrap.

It's not like your argument is based on proven facts. It's based on your opinion.

I was talking about what guns do as well, btw.

My bad, I didn't know you were talking about what guns smell nice. I thought we were still on the topic.

Pretty sure everything I said was on-topic.

But thats not right, all the guns get the same statistical benefit, but in practice the SPAS gets a large benefit. Many of the guns that may be used to protect a player from a close-quarters SPAS attack are useless against EF.

You wouldn't use the Hive or Warpy to protect yourself from a SPAS right in your face, or you'd end up committing suicide. The easiest way to counter a SPAS at close range is the USP & melee spam combo, or the SCAR & melee spam combo, which aren't affected by EF.

Also, I don't really believe it's that hard to avoid close combat. There are plenty of places where you can go that force your opponent to charge straight at you (giving you time to shoot them with those mid/long range weapons).
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"God put obvious limitations on our intelligence, but none whatsoever on our stupidity". -Fr.John Corapi
#30CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 4/1/2013 11:50:41 PM
The best gun I've found at preventing Close Quarters has actually been the Shrieker.

USP and SCAR are limited to line of sight, and really are not effective spacing tools unless there is limited cover.

Also I disagree that they are the best guns for countering a Spas to the face, because you're going to be relying on the spas user to miss.

The only REAL way to counter a spas in face to face CC, that isn't going to rely on luck, is by being the one to pull the trigger first, and to end it just that quickly.
Thats going to mean OHKO weapons, or something that will bring them within 10-20% for a melee/usp finish.

Playing perkless, I've actually found the warp pistol to be the best gun for the job of specifically countering spas ( besides spas itself).
It is both effective in spacing, getting around the line of sight flaw which limits spacing effectiveness in other weapons, and it has the OHKO potential to make that kill when the CC situation is forced.

Also, EF isn't statistically equal.
Remember, it doesn't protect people from the damage of their own explosions, while simultaneously making it easier to inflict damage on yourself in CC by means of a larger hitbox.
So Spas is only going to have the same statistical advantage as other ballistic or pure energy weapons.
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