My Version of Standard C2 Competitive Rules

#41MindesynPosted 7/5/2013 3:32:47 PM
I completely see what your saying, but if you want to REALLY bring out the skill in people then it comes down to arguments like "OH LC has Samu5 and Symph! Thats not fair to (insert lesser skilled players here)" But if someone like me can use RD or SMAW to try and get kills on them, then its exciting, to have that thought that I might be able to beat Symph or Samu, that my clan can beat B05S or HC even tho we are clearly outmatched.

SMAW is an extreme example since most people ban them anyways, but HUNT let the Widowmaker ban go. I used it, wasnt as great I was hoping, but it gave me a refreshing challenge to play a chess match within a clan match. It added something, I have been unable to do so in the past. It made it fun. Yes I know it mightve been cheap or nooby and the MLG wont allow that BS, but hey, they did, it didnt work against em, and I had a few moments of clarity in that consistent ban.

I REALLY thought I was gonna hammer em with my Widowmaker. I thought this was a huge mistake on their part. It wasnt. Their entire team had RD tho, we still beat em, but RD gave em a better chance, and it gave us a better challenge to work together to beat em.

You can ban tons of things for sake of balance and legit rules and regulations, but you are stripping C2 of something that people enjoy about it. Fun and strategy.
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#42CmoIsDaNam3(Topic Creator)Posted 7/5/2013 3:35:26 PM
RD fun? Get out! Must be the new thing like smoking pot.
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#43-HC-P4GPosted 7/5/2013 3:40:07 PM
But just how is that bringing out the skill in anyone!? All that sounds like to me is a system where bad players can beat good ones because of broken gameplay mechanics. If a player is bad, they're bad. And they do not deserve to beat better players because of uneven circumstances! I would make a longer post put i've got to go.
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#44CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 7/5/2013 3:41:47 PM
-HC-P4G posted...

You have shown more skill and talent for completely and utterly missing the point than I ever thought possible. Not only that, but it seems that you simply do not know how banning works.

The point of banning things is not to bring good players to their knees. It is the exact opposite. The point is to take away the things that artificially give weaker players a chance.

No one's trying to balance clans. Someone has to win, after all, right? The point is that weak players/clans should never be able to compete with strong ones simply because they use cheap tactics.

Also. Banning affects everyone. No one is allowed to use banned things. If cheap tactics can be somewhat nerfed, it makes way for real skill based battles. The point is not to simply strip one player
of his power so the weaker player can have a chance.

Let's take your example. Cmo, no disrespect, but Symph is probably the better player. So, let's say (again, no disrespect, just an example) that Cmo wants to use the SMAW and RD since nothing is banned. Symph is above that, because he doesn't like using that sort of thing (I'm completely making this up, by the way, no idea how he actually feels about things like that). So, Cmo decides to sit in a corner, and wait for Symph to walk by. When Symph does, he plops down a rad, sits in it, completely invincible, and blows Symph away. Now, if you'd like to tell me how that's skill vs. skill, I encourage you to go right ahead.

Also, I realize this is kind of a late reply, I've been a bit busy.


If I may, not exactly on the point of the argument.
the reason for banning is to promote a healthy metagame and balance.

IF the game was all about competition, And there were no bans, then the entire game would almost entirely revolve around just a few possible loadouts.
The smaw would almost be the ONLY weapon used, just like Tcon pubs.

So the objective needs to be to keep as many tactics and weapons/perks viable as possible.
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#45MindesynPosted 7/5/2013 3:43:17 PM
-HC-P4G posted...
But just how is that bringing out the skill in anyone!? All that sounds like to me is a system where bad players can beat good ones because of broken gameplay mechanics. If a player is bad, they're bad. And they do not deserve to beat better players because of uneven circumstances! I would make a longer post put i've got to go.


Then whats the point of teams? We have bad players and we have good players, we win even with bad players like me. Its a team sport man. Unless its 1v1s and I did very well at 1v1s. All Im saying is that C2 is really...a weird game, its so over the top and all the guns have crazy settings and powers, and they added so much stuff to the game and tried to balance it and wasnt very successful at it, its hard to not just narrow it down to perkless ballistic weapons aka CoD. In which case you would see a TERRIBLE player in me, since I cant SCAR/SPAS to save my life.
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#46-HC-P4GPosted 7/5/2013 6:54:50 PM
Mindesyn posted...
-HC-P4G posted...
But just how is that bringing out the skill in anyone!? All that sounds like to me is a system where bad players can beat good ones because of broken gameplay mechanics. If a player is bad, they're bad. And they do not deserve to beat better players because of uneven circumstances! I would make a longer post put i've got to go.


Then whats the point of teams? We have bad players and we have good players, we win even with bad players like me. Its a team sport man. Unless its 1v1s and I did very well at 1v1s. All Im saying is that C2 is really...a weird game, its so over the top and all the guns have crazy settings and powers, and they added so much stuff to the game and tried to balance it and wasnt very successful at it, its hard to not just narrow it down to perkless ballistic weapons aka CoD. In which case you would see a TERRIBLE player in me, since I cant SCAR/SPAS to save my life.

There are some guns that have crazy settings and powers. But as far as I'm concerned, the SMAW ain't one, which is the only weapon that would be 100% certain to be banned without further negotiation. Because, I do recall saying that NOTHING is at all final, and the decisions for bans would ultimately come down to polls, so that people like you can vote on them any way you like.

On teams: we do teams because we like to play with friends. We like to have people on our team, and to function together as such. We do it to have FUN in other words. People like other people. Basketball could be every man for himself, and yet people choose to do it with other people on their team. To have FUN. Even bad players like to have fun. But tell me: winning with the full knowledge that the reason you won is because you resorted to tactics that the other team would have nothing to do with, is that fun?

Also, for some reason, the entire C2 community decided to do teams (funny how that works, huh?). That's already been decided, and that's not something ANYONE has EVER proposed to change, unless I somehow missed the memo. Besides the fact that your whole argument on teams is completely and utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand.

But either way, thanks for the debate, unless you've got any more complaints, potential problems, or irrelevant topics to discuss (in which case, make a new thread. Seriously).
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#47MindesynPosted 7/6/2013 11:19:11 PM
-HC-P4G posted...
Also, for some reason, the entire C2 community decided to do teams (funny how that works, huh?)


So why is Chain a competitive battle ladder player but not a competitive clan player? Why was the Singles BL so popular for years? Funny indeed.

But either way, thanks for the debate, unless you've got any more complaints, potential problems, or irrelevant topics to discuss (in which case, make a new thread. Seriously).


Kinda like a [LC] vs -HC- thread? Its pointless because you wont show up anyways. Odd how when people get beat in a debate that claim that all opposing points are instantly irrelevant. I agree with the SMAW ban, cause people assume clan matches are like pubs.

Anyone here remember that 1v1 I had with BIO? He used the SMAW, I used the Strike Rifle, with ammo dumps turned on? What was the score? 11-0? Yeah SMAW is SO OP!

Squeakers gon squeak
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#48Symphonia46Posted 7/6/2013 11:41:31 PM
-HC-P4G posted...
Mindesyn posted...
HangarD9 posted...
My Apologies, i dont knew it shymp


The basic point is this: We got a system for competitive gameplay in an obscure Wii FPS all worked out, it took trial and error, and arguments and what not, but its there, we have wars, we have fun, thats all that matters. This isnt MLG and it never will be.
Chain worked the outlines for 1v1s and 2v2s in the Battle Ladder, I have never found a problem with PMIng your opponent and hammering out details.

There is no way Cmo is on the same level as someone like Symph, nerf him, take his perks, make him not fire a gun. Still not on his level. YOu cant balance two clans evenly, there is always a shift in power. LC have a clan war tomorrow, all the bans completely nerf all my loadouts. Thats fine. Im not playing in it. I would be left with melee, not ideal for our lineup. Doesnt mean I have to stack more bans to nerf Mey or Letha1 to compensate.


Let's take your example. Cmo, no disrespect, but Symph is probably the better player. So, let's say (again, no disrespect, just an example) that Cmo wants to use the SMAW and RD since nothing is banned. Symph is above that, because he doesn't like using that sort of thing (I'm completely making this up, by the way, no idea how he actually feels about things like that). So, Cmo decides to sit in a corner, and wait for Symph to walk by. When Symph does, he plops down a rad, sits in it, completely invincible, and blows Symph away. Now, if you'd like to tell me how that's skill vs. skill, I encourage you to go right ahead.


You honestly think that? Only an idiot would sit around letting a person oh-so obviously using a SMAW with RD killing him. There are tactics for it that people use to counter it. Trust me, normal 1v1s do NOT need bans. 1v1s are a show of true skill and the situation you've shown there makes me look like an idiot by far. Go ahead, 1v1 me with a SMAW and RD. I trust you that will not succeed in beating me.

In TEAM battles, bans are made because everyone can't communicate to each other. RD and SMAW is a large team support and easy in that regard. Take out one compound from that and it will be fine. The only real thing banned is the SMAW, we of LC can tell youwe beat a team of RDers was beaten because we showed the smarts of NOT STANDING AROUND letting them kill us. Banning anything else than SMAW is a limitation to certain players who use certain play styles. Banning RD for example "nerfs" or limits Jaye from using his main play style and any other player who plays the same way.

"Now, if you'd like to tell me how that's skill vs. skill, I encourage you to go right ahead." Skill vs skill is 1 vs 1. Skill and Skill vs. Skill is different and in team games 2 v 1s are common because it's team play. Your situation tells only of a 1v1 not a 3v3.
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#49CmoIsDaNam3(Topic Creator)Posted 7/7/2013 2:52:01 AM
Symp, I have a very simple answer for you don't doesn't include a gaint wall of text, you ready?



No.
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#50Symphonia46Posted 7/7/2013 5:24:34 AM
CmoIsDaNam3 posted...
Symp, I have a very simple answer for you don't doesn't include a gaint wall of text, you ready?



No.


Congratulations for not reading, you'll be heading onto my ignore list now.
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"Why do I always feel like it's the end of the world and I'm the last man standing?" -Phoenix Wright
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