Since clans sem to be booming, we need to come up with an official banlist.

#1Hawke0Posted 7/14/2013 7:09:16 PM
This topic is all about debating, putting forth arguments for what you think there should be, and counter-arguments. If you can't handle criticism, back up your arguments, or are just going to try to make others out to be big bad trolls who just want to restrict everyone elses choices, leave now.

1. The Hive Cannon, SMAW, and Explosive Focus.
The problem with the Hive and SMAW is that they're 'noob weapons'. It's practically impossible to go up against someone using them without taking some damage, because of the fact that they require almost no aiming, especially for the Hive Cannon with its ridiculous RoF and clip size. The SMAW makes Explosive Focus almost necessary because of its large one hit kill radius, and it makes the battle imbalanced. A competent player with Explosive Focus will almost never be killed by a SMAW user or Hive Cannon user, but without it they'll probably end up dying.

The reason Explosive Focus should be banned is because it doesn't have anything left to counter at that point. It counters the TPC, Shrieker, HVS, Warpy, and SPAS, and three of those are low tier weapons; the other two are balanced, and it offers this defense without any sort of drawback, in addition to increased explosive radius. If it' defense you want, use Heavy Armor, a balanced defensive perk.

2. Phase Rifle Specialization and Helmet.
Phase Rifle Specialization makes the Phase Rifle completely outclass the other sniper rifle, and too easy to get a kill with. Perfect accuracy and OHKO to any part of the body is more than strong enough, but in addition to that it can shoot through walls. Tuned shots are always a one hit kill, no matter what. Removing PR Spec and keeping PR Tuning makes the two snipers more or less equal; Both (assuming the Strike Rifle user has Double Energy) are capable of a one shot kill to the head or two shot kill to the body, but one has a vastly better rate of fire and clip size. The other has greater accuracy and the ability to one hit kill with tuned shots to any part of the body. That's why banning PR Spec is better than Tuning, it makes them balanced relative to each other.

Btw, if you REALLY need the OHKO to the body, that can be achieved with double ballistics. But that means you have to sacrifice two perks instead of one, which makes it more balanced than the alternative.

Helmet should be banned because it serves as a counter to - and discourages - playing well. If the Phase Rifle is to be without PR Spec, it's reliant on headshots, something that require skill to get. It also cripples the HVS45. Helmet exists solely to make good players do less well than they should be, and it needs to be removed as a compromise for the removal of PR. Spec.

That's all for now.
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#2xXAISPXxPosted 7/14/2013 7:14:29 PM
I unfortunately have to expect Hawke to ban Phase Rifle Specialization. I would say that it has to be banned only if Double Armor is banned.
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#3VintageRonJohnPosted 7/14/2013 7:15:01 PM
With full respect to the intent of this thread, and without meaning to derail it, I don't think anything should be outright banned from all clan matches.

Though it would be helpful for each clan to post somewhere the bans that they intend to seek by default for all matches.
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#4HC-GabePosted 7/14/2013 7:21:27 PM
VintageRonJohn posted...
With full respect to the intent of this thread, and without meaning to derail it, I don't think anything should be outright banned from all clan matches.

Though it would be helpful for each clan to post somewhere the bans that they intend to seek by default for all matches.

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#5Hawke0(Topic Creator)Posted 7/14/2013 7:23:12 PM
@AISP that depends on the PR's headshot multiplier. It does 70 damage base, and DA makes it 140 health. Doesn't the PR have a x2 headshot multiplier?

VintageRonJohn posted...
With full respect to the intent of this thread, and without meaning to derail it, I don't think anything should be outright banned from all clan matches.

Though it would be helpful for each clan to post somewhere the bans that they intend to seek by default for all matches.


Of course. This is just sort of a way to get a basis, somewhere to start from when talking about a new clan war. If they agree to change it for that specific clan war, they can.
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Occupation Bob and Endgame are probably the stupidest people on the FE:A board.
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#61PefrogPosted 7/14/2013 7:26:21 PM
I like the banning of the SMAW and explosive focus (because of it's odd effect of the SPAS and HVS45). The phase rifle specialization and double armor kind of offset each other (except when a team has the damage control point). I don't care about the hive cannon.

BUT

If I had the choice of what to ban it would be lock-on, because clan matches are supposed to be great players against great player and lock-on is an aid or a crutch. The problem is that we don't get too many chances to practice without lock-on. 2 cents.
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#7FaLc0niZWaSTeDPosted 7/14/2013 7:28:33 PM
The problem with banning PR Spec. is that it sucks worse than the SR without it. The SR is semi-auto, has IIRC, 10? shots per mag, and has a decent RoF, and is a 2SK with DE, and IIRC a 1SK to the head charged. The PR is bolt-action, a 1SK to the head, 2SK to the body on an unarmored target, has a significantly slower RoF, and only three shots per mag. As AISP said, it's fine as long as the armor upgrades aren't banned.
#8VintageRonJohnPosted 7/14/2013 8:14:31 PM
Hawke0 posted...
Of course. This is just sort of a way to get a basis, somewhere to start from when talking about a new clan war. If they agree to change it for that specific clan war, they can.


I like this. I also happen to like the banlist you put forth, as an HVS45 user. I would like to hear more rebuttals, though, like this:

FaLc0niZWaSTeD posted...
The problem with banning PR Spec. is that it sucks worse than the SR without it. The SR is semi-auto, has IIRC, 10? shots per mag, and has a decent RoF, and is a 2SK with DE, and IIRC a 1SK to the head charged. The PR is bolt-action, a 1SK to the head, 2SK to the body on an unarmored target, has a significantly slower RoF, and only three shots per mag. As AISP said, it's fine as long as the armor upgrades aren't banned.


@Falcon: Can't the Phase Rifle still shoot through freaking walls, though? And it still has tuning under Hawke's list. All that aside, it's okay for one weapon to be stronger (in most situations) than another.
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#9-HC-P4GPosted 7/14/2013 8:19:14 PM
...No.
Been attempted, lots, but everyone loves their overpowered loadouts and wouldn't stand for seeing them banned...
If there was a list that banned everything evil in Conduit 2, and if everyone in the competitive community agreed on that list, not only would it give me a heart attack, but I would also change my mind.
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#10-HC-P4GPosted 7/14/2013 8:24:39 PM
VintageRonJohn posted...


Though it would be helpful for each clan to post somewhere the bans that they intend to seek by default for all matches.


What I should have said. Makes so much sense. I think the host team's banlist should be the default.
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