Since clans sem to be booming, we need to come up with an official banlist.

#71MindesynPosted 7/15/2013 2:56:03 PM(edited)
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Even without participating in clan battles, Few have been as competitively active in Con2 as I.


You are only competitive in coming up with excuses on why you lose.
"I run a perkless account named DISCOVER so if you beat me it doesnt mean anything" STFD noob.
Funny about the HVS45 as well, you never used that thing in competitive play against me and Samu5, so QFT. You know why you didn't? You aint good enough to take someone down with it if they have a teammate, that makes it a unreliable gun in a clan war.

Seeing as once again you dont compete on this level of gameplay in C2, I forgive your ignorance tho, just try not to let it happen again.

Oh and for the record? Just because you come up with well thought out ideas on why something should be banned doesn't mean anyone thinks you are right or will adopt your ideas. So quit making pages and pages of posts about the same argument. It doesnt even concern you.

Go make another Battle Ladder and create a banlist there.
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#721PefrogPosted 7/15/2013 3:40:06 PM
Mindesyn posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Even without participating in clan battles, Few have been as competitively active in Con2 as I.


You are only competitive in coming up with excuses on why you lose.
"I run a perkless account named DISCOVER so if you beat me it doesnt mean anything" STFD noob.
Funny about the HVS45 as well, you never used that thing in competitive play against me and Samu5, so QFT. You know why you didn't? You aint good enough to take someone down with it if they have a teammate, that makes it a unreliable gun in a clan war.

Seeing as once again you dont compete on this level of gameplay in C2, I forgive your ignorance tho, just try not to let it happen again.

Oh and for the record? Just because you come up with well thought out ideas on why something should be banned doesn't mean anyone thinks you are right or will adopt your ideas. So quit making pages and pages of posts about the same argument. It doesnt even concern you.

Go make another Battle Ladder and create a banlist there.


I've used the HVS45 in a clan war. Any sniper works well in a clan war with no radar.
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#73MindesynPosted 7/15/2013 3:43:43 PM
1Pefrog posted...
I've used the HVS45 in a clan war. Any sniper works well in a clan war with no radar.


Not gonna get into it with you dug, but its rare for you to dominate with the HVS45 in a clan match. If YOU did well with it, then I commend you, but a team of HVS45 users would be my dream come true to play against. Im not gonna go make a list of the worst guns and put it on the list like Cmo did, but I will say there are better choices for competitive play, unless you are a headshot genius, its at best mediocre.
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#741PefrogPosted 7/15/2013 4:30:26 PM
OK, but you know that killing the other team isn't everything. Even if you miss the head, the HVS45 does a good job of taking away one third of the someones health. Especially when they are in a fight with one of your teammates.
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#75CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 7/15/2013 4:35:01 PM(edited)
Mindesyn posted...
t doesnt even concern you.


Uh... It most certainly does.

The topic was brought up because of clans, but it is not exclusive to them.
This whole discussion is relevant to basically all organized matches.
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#76MindesynPosted 7/15/2013 5:21:56 PM
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Uh... It most certainly does.

The topic was brought up because of clans, but it is not exclusive to them.
This whole discussion is relevant to basically all organized matches.


Im sorry can you do me a favor and re-read the topic title to me? English isnt my first language, so maybe I mis-read it.
Yes it is RELEVANT to organized matches, just not the ones you partake in. Get in the scene, then get an opinion. Until then you are about as useful as someone who posts on a certain game's board that has never played the game.

You have opinions and ideas on competitive swimming, but you never even been in the pool.
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#77CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 7/15/2013 7:00:32 PM
Back on topic,

Here are my recommendations:

Bans:

Smaw,
EF,
PR tuning
Widowmaker Spec.


Banned Combinations:

RD+Bomb bag.
Rads+ammo salvage.
Supercharger+Metal Legs.
PR spec + Improved ballistics.
Ballistics focus + Improved Ballistics ( AKA, double ballistics )

I feel this will improve the balance of the game in both HC and GB, and make many more weapons and playstyles competitive.
Ballistic and Explosive weapons as a whole are a bit nerfed, while energy weapons receive a relative boost. ( aside from rad grenades ) Keeping them relevant to the game.

Frags are nerfed from EF bannage, but can still be quite devastating with Improved explosives.
In teams, flash-bangs are mostly self regulating, as blinding your teammates is always a risk.

The PR is quite significantly nerfed, and is now able to be effectively punished VIA DA.
DA is balanced in this situation because of the speed nerf of HA, which makes users a more obvious target.

However, with SC being ever so slightly negatively affected, I feel a better balanced is achieved between snipers, and rushers, and PR gains a little of the potential it lost.

Rads are nerfed simply because of their unpredictable nature online, and their ease by which to get a guaranteed kill.

RD is nerfed to prevent it from overwhemling a match from multiple users, similarly with the widowmaker spec.

Spas's power is limited by the DB ban, lite armor is now enough to guarantee against a OHKO Spas rushing is also limited by the EF ban, as TCP's are now a significant threat, as well as some other "minor" weapons, including the Warpy and Shrieker, which are both excellent weapons in shutting down an approach. All of which an EF spas user would be nearly impervious to.
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NS_CHAIN 2666-2862-7656
#78xXAISPXxPosted 7/15/2013 7:03:39 PM
Poor Chain.

All he wanted were his tadpoles again, and his tornado machine fixed.
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#79MindesynPosted 7/15/2013 7:13:17 PM
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Back on topic,
Here are my recommendations...



Disagree with pretty much all of it. SMAW is fine.
Widow and RD arnt game breaking in clan wars. Experienced clan war veterans will know this.
Nice attempt at a long thought out post. However, since I disagree, Im gonna take a page out of your book and just say, since I disagree with it, it cant be done, and for you to move on.
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#80Hawke0(Topic Creator)Posted 7/15/2013 7:24:25 PM
Symphonia46 posted...
Hawke0 posted...
In short, here's the good things about Explosive Focus.
1. Counters the Hive Cannon.
That's it. If the SMAW is banned, that's the only positive thing about it. You can't count weakening the SPAS or TPC, that's what we have Heavy Armor for, and it's actually balanced because of speed reduction.
The bad things about it:
1. Cripples the Warp Pistol.
2. Cripples the Shrieker.
3. Makes the HVS45 unusable.
4. Weakens the TPC
5. Weakens the SPAS
6. Makes Heavy Armor less worth using.
7. By allowing the Hive Cannon, you move the Aegis Device from 'underpowered', to 'unusable'.

By banning the Hive Cannon and Explosive Focus, you make the number of viable weapons and perks increase by at least five. It's a no brainer, although the PR Spec vs. Tuning is much more open to debate.


Because you definitely use Shreiker, Warpy, HVS45, and AEGIS Devices in clan wars. Low-tiered weapons are used because they are fun, but since you are in a clan with some members who want to want to win. You'd actually want to use fun weapons even though there are a bunch of other guns that make it easier to achieve that win? That's just completely silly, EXTREMELY silly. Why be in that clan if you're not going to try to win? You would try to use higher tier'd weapons to help your team out. And Heavy Armor lessens all types of damage.


The Shrieker and Warpy are both good in HC, and they're far from bad in in BTGB. The AEGIS is good against the Widow, TPC, and SPAS, if not much else.

"No, [Explosive Focus] exists to me to counter every explosives weapon because that's its point of 3, and to counter SPAS because it's advantage with the two ballistic upgrades. Also, Heavy Armor is more useful because it lessens all damage."

There's only two explosives that need countering at all, the Hive Cannon and the SMAW. Saying that "a perk exists to me to cripple several balanced weapons and counter two overpowered weapons, and counter one other completely unrelated weapon" is a horrible argument. Explosive Focus crippling balanced weapons is bad balance because it imbalances the game, you may be shocked by this but guns being balanced is good. Being underpowered is bad, and being overpowered is worse.

Heavy Armor better than EF? lol.
The only guns that countering is exclusive to HA is
USP45
SCAR
Mp5
Strike Rifle
ARC-Eclipse
Phase Rifle
Widowmaker Turret
Both are useless against the Carbonizer, Dark Star, rads, and flashbangs.
EF counters the SMAW, Hive Cannon, SPAS, Warpy, TPC, HVS, Shrieker, Deatomizer, and frags, and it does all of that better than Heavy Armor does. It counters every one hit kill except the Phase Rifle and Strike Rifle, and it doesn't have the speed weakness of Heavy Armor. The only thing that gives HA a significant advantage against EF is the PR countering, overall EF outclasses HA, and every other primary upgrade.

You can't defend EF as countering the SPAS; That's what Heavy Armor is for, and Heavy Armor is actually not broken.
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