What the heck is an arena shooter anyway?

#71CynralKynathelPosted 7/14/2014 3:38:57 PMmessage detail
FALCON_ONLINE posted...
And I'm pretty sure you're still not making the connection.

Yes, that kind of thing is relatively rare, but after working as a line cook for about a year I can affirm that there's a lot of disgusting s*** that still gets by.

The real point here is that more variables decreases order in the result. You're making a random, s***ty mess that rewards random chance more than skill, if not intentionally crippling good players.


I think you're pretty bad at making analogies.

Having loadouts is akin to having a menu where you are given a large set number of entrees and can choose a wide variety of toppings. There people can get dishes that taste similar but are different overall. How does being good with the phase rifle and only the phase rifle make you unskillful? You're just shifting time spent on other weapons to a single one. If a chef can make the best pizza in the entire world, but can't make good spaghetti, does that make him a bad chef?
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Pseudo-official Co-'Pun'-isher of the Conduit 2 Board. I have veteran SCARs. Heheheh.
#72FALCON_ONLINEPosted 7/14/2014 4:04:20 PMmessage detail
Uh, yeah, you're actually a completely f***ing awful chef if you can only make one dish.

It's the same with games. The PR is one easy weapon among many, and you have no versatility as a player if you couldn't also win with a SPAS or SR.
#73CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 7/14/2014 4:07:37 PMmessage detail
FALCON_ONLINE posted...
Uh, yeah, you're actually a completely f***ing awful chef if you can only make one dish.


If you loose in a cookout against a chef who can only make one dish, then you suck.
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#74FALCON_ONLINEPosted 7/14/2014 4:25:12 PMmessage detail
If you have no versatility, you're garbage. In no real career could you survive making one dish alone. Sure, you can have your specialty, but no restaurant will want you if you tell them, "I can make toast!" on your interview. It's like video games because scrubs who rely on one crutch are generally terrible overall players.

Once again, cooking isn't a huge part of my life, but if you tune in to a show on HGTV or the Food Network I can guarantee none of the professional chefs on those shows got there just by making a single entree.
#75CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 7/14/2014 4:35:47 PMmessage detail
FALCON_ONLINE posted...
If you have no versatility, you're garbage. In no real career could you survive making one dish alone. Sure, you can have your specialty, but no restaurant will want you if you tell them, "I can make toast!" on your interview. It's like video games because scrubs who rely on one crutch are generally terrible overall players.

Once again, cooking isn't a huge part of my life, but if you tune in to a show on HGTV or the Food Network I can guarantee none of the professional chefs on those shows got there just by making a single entree.


And a "scrub" could make it onto MLG by only knowing one weapon?
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#76CynralKynathelPosted 7/14/2014 4:45:53 PMmessage detail
FALCON_ONLINE posted...
Uh, yeah, you're actually a completely f***ing awful chef if you can only make one dish.

It's the same with games. The PR is one easy weapon among many, and you have no versatility as a player if you couldn't also win with a SPAS or SR.


I didn't say he can only make 1 dish. If you play a shooter and are good with the PR, why wouldn't you be decent with a SCAR or an SR or a Carbonizer? They all are good with sniping and have to power to make the crosshair the smallest it can be. A person will naturally attempt to implement his style of play into new weapons as it's something he's familiar with. Just as the chef would naturally try to implement what he does best (making pizza) into his dishes.
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Pseudo-official Co-'Pun'-isher of the Conduit 2 Board. I have veteran SCARs. Heheheh.
#77PancakeThe2ndPosted 7/14/2014 5:00:38 PMmessage detail
CynralKynathel posted...
FALCON_ONLINE posted...
Uh, yeah, you're actually a completely f***ing awful chef if you can only make one dish.

It's the same with games. The PR is one easy weapon among many, and you have no versatility as a player if you couldn't also win with a SPAS or SR.


I didn't say he can only make 1 dish. If you play a shooter and are good with the PR, why wouldn't you be decent with a SCAR or an SR or a Carbonizer? They all are good with sniping and have to power to make the crosshair the smallest it can be. A person will naturally attempt to implement his style of play into new weapons as it's something he's familiar with. Just as the chef would naturally try to implement what he does best (making pizza) into his dishes.


Thats old school shooter, Cyn.
#78LigersRulePosted 7/14/2014 5:27:44 PMmessage detail
CynralKynathel posted...
I didn't say he can only make 1 dish. If you play a shooter and are good with the PR, why wouldn't you be decent with a SCAR or an SR or a Carbonizer? They all are good with sniping and have to power to make the crosshair the smallest it can be. A person will naturally attempt to implement his style of play into new weapons as it's something he's familiar with. Just as the chef would naturally try to implement what he does best (making pizza) into his dishes.


Cyn, saying you specialize in PR and are decent with other snipers is like saying "I can make a fantastic tomato Soup, but also an OK potato soup, an OK carrot soup, and an OK chicken noodle.

And what happens when that Soup guy is asked to prepare a steak? Or asked to make some great pasta? He can't do it. Cause he's a Soup guy. He can make Tomato soup, and decent other soup, but he always eats soup so why would he need to know how to make something besides soup?

A decent Counter-Strike player, Quake player, or UT player will know how to play everything really dang well. Because they aren't soup guy. They are Iron Chef guy. Soup guy is the Modern Shooter genre.

I'm never going to say people who play Modern Shooters can't be skilled. Because they can be. You can watch high level CoD or Battlefield (even some of the more skilled C2 players) and say "Oh, they're really talented". However, their skillset is extremely narrow, in comparison to a high level Arena Shooter player. By having a smaller skillset, doesn't that make them less skilled?
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#79CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 7/14/2014 7:37:53 PMmessage detail(edited)
LigersRule posted...
However, their skillset is extremely narrow, in comparison to a high level Arena Shooter player.


Not necessarily.

And if everybody is better with their one gun, and they're fighting people who are better with THEIR one gun, doesn't it just amount to the same thing?
This situation would require people to be much more skilled with the guns they do use, would it not?

If somebody poured 5,000 hours of gameplay into a modern shooter, vs 5000 hours of gameplay into an arena shooter, I'd expect them to have roughly the same skill, even if they don't develop the same skill sets.

Back to the analogy, why would the soup guy need to make a steak? he's a soup guy.
If making steak was something he was required to do in his format, then I'm sure he would be very good at making steak.


Essentially, you saying if you take a modern shooter player, and stick them in an arena shooter, that they would suck. Well, no duh. Its a different format.
If you were to take an arena player, and stick them in a specialist format, they would also suck.

But instead of saying "Oh look I suck", they say "This game is letting players less skilled then me do well."
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#80PancakeThe2ndPosted 7/14/2014 9:33:09 PMmessage detail
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
LigersRule posted...
However, their skillset is extremely narrow, in comparison to a high level Arena Shooter player.


Not necessarily.

And if everybody is better with their one gun, and they're fighting people who are better with THEIR one gun, doesn't it just amount to the same thing?
This situation would require people to be much more skilled with the guns they do use, would it not?

If somebody poured 5,000 hours of gameplay into a modern shooter, vs 5000 hours of gameplay into an arena shooter, I'd expect them to have roughly the same skill, even if they don't develop the same skill sets.

Back to the analogy, why would the soup guy need to make a steak? he's a soup guy.
If making steak was something he was required to do in his format, then I'm sure he would be very good at making steak.


Essentially, you saying if you take a modern shooter player, and stick them in an arena shooter, that they would suck. Well, no duh. Its a different format.
If you were to take an arena player, and stick them in a specialist format, they would also suck.

But instead of saying "Oh look I suck", they say "This game is letting players less skilled then me do well."