Just finished the game....the ending is pretty good and it made sense..*spoilers

#71BlackWizardMagusPosted 4/25/2012 3:54:18 PM
I don't call that foreshadowing. It's like, okay, picture some 80's cop movie; a bunch of smuggling rings are being busted, all exactly the same. So, someone stopping to say "Well, you know, it seems implied that one group or one guy must be setting these up" isn't really any sort of foreshadowing. It's logically implied already. We already knew that. Likewise, we already knew someone or something set up the cycle; either the Reapers themselves, or their creators, or some higher beings. We already know that because it couldn't be otherwise. So, the fact that we would be told that is not foreshadowing, it's stating the obvious. To foreshadow Star Child, the specific character, we would need more than that, something like "It seems the Reapers are, and always have been, acting on orders from another". That would at the very least require an additional character.
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#72geekneck99Posted 4/25/2012 4:00:09 PM(edited)

From: SageOfLife | #070
Philosopher1701 posted...
Jessica Merizan, the BioWare community manager, has suggested that the Catalyst is a being of light. Granted, she might not be a credible source for plot information.

Isn't she the one who thought the Normandy crashed on Earth until someone pointed out the second moon?


I remember somebody here making that mistake (NewMoonShadow, or something like that, IIRC), but yeah, I facepalmed pretty much every time someone on BSN (lurked there for a while) would link to one of her responses on Twitter.
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#73EliteGuard99Posted 4/25/2012 3:56:38 PM
SpacePirateKhan posted...
People who get the ending don't get Mass Effect. >_> Which is fine, people are allowed to like bad endings.

Also, ME1 had the best end of game song in the series. o: I was already pumped after beating ME, and the song was like steroids.


ME3's ending song was done by the same band.
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#74SalvatoriPosted 4/25/2012 3:59:57 PM
Got to love how people say things like "the ending makes sense" - but then offer no explanation as to how.

Yes it makes total sense how Reapers were created to save organics, even though their method of "saving" includes the following:

Liquefying people into a paste that is absorbed into new Reapers.
Cross-mutating different species to produce bio-weapons.
Conducting experiments on live beings.
And lets not forget the sheer slaughter and destruction of countless lives.

I'm sure those who suffered one of the above fates really felt that they were "saved" from synthetics..
#75Keyblader8Posted 4/25/2012 4:02:20 PM
I don't even want to BEGIN to tackle all of the points people have made on either side here, but I've been wondering...

When Shepard is on Thessia talking to the Prothean VI, he clearly mentions that there were many cycles before theirs, and that the Protheans suspected that there was an unknown force orchestrating the cycles and the Reapers.

Knowing this, when the Catalyst showed up, it made perfect sense to me, because not three or so hours before I had been told that there was SOMEONE behind the curtain.

Am I not understanding something that the VI said? Cuz to me it was kinda obvious what would happen as far as what the catalyst was. Or maybe I'm so stupid that I managed to lead myself along this train of thought...
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#76JamanjaxPosted 4/25/2012 4:05:32 PM(edited)

From: SageOfLife | #302
Yes I have. You just ignore them and respond with personal attacks because you don't like them.


I've yet to see them, and I've yet to make any personal attacks in this topic thus far. Or even in the last topic, to be honest. If you have anything to bring to the table in regards to these supposed lore violations, you might as well get over my "personal attacks" and post them. Otherwise you aren't really contributing anything to the discussion aside from a holier than thou attitude.

From: BlackWizardMagus | #303
But he's doing a piss-poor job of saving organics from the reapers, which is literally what it says. Yes, we can start changing the definitions of words around to make it say other things, but then everything and nothing can be considered foreshadowing. Not to mention that we don't even know that Star Child is a race OR light-like at all. That could just be the holographic interface he chose to use that day.


I wouldn't say so. The Reapers, and by extension Star Child, operate on logic alone. No room for emotion or things of that nature. As such, his cycle is logically sound. Reapers exterminate the most advanced races every cycle, and see to it that the nature of these races are preserved. Whereas, without their intervention, our created synthetics would likely lead to mass extinction, leaving no room for a future species to flourish as is allowed by the Reaper's cycle. It's an absolutely ridiculous solution to the problem, but it's obviously worked. A new solution is only needed once Shep makes it to the Ventboy VI.

It's not a matter of playing with definitions of words. Ventboy is what Klencory was foreshadowing, and that's that.

From: Aigonroth | #304
Actually yes the Star Child is hinted at however it is not from Klencory, on Thessia when we are talking to Vendetta he talks about the cycles and **** and he says that the master behind the cycles is implied but not known.


I agree there, but that also doesn't diminish the foreshadowing in Klencory's description. One example of foreshadowing doesn't just magically render another useless just because it provides a little more explanation than the former.

From: Keyblader8 | #355
Am I not understanding something that the VI said? Cuz to me it was kinda obvious what would happen as far as what the catalyst was. Or maybe I'm so stupid that I managed to lead myself along this train of thought...


And no, you're exactly right there.
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#77SageOfLifePosted 4/25/2012 4:07:23 PM(edited)
Keyblader8 posted...
I don't even want to BEGIN to tackle all of the points people have made on either side here, but I've been wondering...

When Shepard is on Thessia talking to the Prothean VI, he clearly mentions that there were many cycles before theirs, and that the Protheans suspected that there was an unknown force orchestrating the cycles and the Reapers.

Knowing this, when the Catalyst showed up, it made perfect sense to me, because not three or so hours before I had been told that there was SOMEONE behind the curtain.

Am I not understanding something that the VI said? Cuz to me it was kinda obvious what would happen as far as what the catalyst was. Or maybe I'm so stupid that I managed to lead myself along this train of thought...


The catalyst itself was just badly executed. The choices, the destruction of the relays and all the problems that come with that, and the Normandy fleeing the battle and crashlanding on some random planet after getting sucked through a wormhole are another matter.

Jamanjax posted...
From: SageOfLife | #302
Yes I have. You just ignore them and respond with personal attacks because you don't like them.
I've yet to see them, and I've yet to make any personal attacks in this topic thus far. Or even in the last topic, to be honest. If you have anything to bring to the table in regards to these supposed lore violations, you might as well get over my "personal attacks" and post them. Otherwise you aren't really contributing anything to the discussion aside from a holier than thou attitude.


Yes you have. You just don't like them so you respond with personal attacks instead.
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#78EliteGuard99Posted 4/25/2012 4:07:06 PM
Salvatori posted...
Got to love how people say things like "the ending makes sense" - but then offer no explanation as to how.

Yes it makes total sense how Reapers were created to save organics, even though their method of "saving" includes the following:

Liquefying people into a paste that is absorbed into new Reapers.
Cross-mutating different species to produce bio-weapons.
Conducting experiments on live beings.
And lets not forget the sheer slaughter and destruction of countless lives.

I'm sure those who suffered one of the above fates really felt that they were "saved" from synthetics..


Maybe when Ventboy said "Save" he didn't mean "we must save you from synthetics" he meant that the reapers would save organic life, like you would save a computer document (aka their DNA code).

In the end they couldn't care less about your feelings, like the AI in I, Robot.
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#79BlackWizardMagusPosted 4/25/2012 4:11:09 PM
Knowing this, when the Catalyst showed up, it made perfect sense to me, because not three or so hours before I had been told that there was SOMEONE behind the curtain.

Am I not understanding something that the VI said? Cuz to me it was kinda obvious what would happen as far as what the catalyst was. Or maybe I'm so stupid that I managed to lead myself along this train of thought...

So, you knew it was a glowing child? That he would offer you these choices? No, you knew that someone was running the show. Obviously. It couldn't be otherwise. That's not foreshadowing; that's saying "there is a murderer" when you see a murdered body.

I wouldn't say so. The Reapers, and by extension Star Child, operate on logic alone. No room for emotion or things of that nature. As such, his cycle is logically sound. Reapers exterminate the most advanced races every cycle, and see to it that the nature of these races are preserved. Whereas, without their intervention, our created synthetics would likely lead to mass extinction, leaving no room for a future species to flourish as is allowed by the Reaper's cycle. It's an absolutely ridiculous solution to the problem, but it's obviously worked. A new solution is only needed once Shep makes it to the Ventboy VI.
So you are saying that the machine devils are not slaughtering people? No, I'm not really asking that, but that's what your words came out to be. Star Child is not saving people from Reapers. I'm not debating his overall logic for the cycle itself, I'm saying his actions don't square with the planet codex unless you twist the obvious interpretation and force it to fit your view.

It's not a matter of playing with definitions of words. Ventboy is what Klencory was foreshadowing, and that's that.
You have explained how you think it operates as foreshadowing; you have yet to offer any evidence that it IS foreshadowing, so no, that is not that.
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#80JamanjaxPosted 4/25/2012 4:11:55 PM

From: SageOfLife | #357
The catalyst itself was just badly executed. The choices, the destruction of the relays and all the problems that come with that, and the Normandy fleeing the battle and crashlanding on some random planet after getting sucked through a wormhole are another matter.


Y'know, with all the claims you've made I expected something other than the tired complaints of the masses.

The series has been building up to the last three choices since the beginning. Of course the Relays will be destroyed along with the Reapers: They're Reaper tech. There are no problems that come from this destruction, because we're given no reason to assume that one event will happen over the other in their wake. So again, in claiming that all-out war breaks out over Earth after the Relays are destroyed, you're merely going out on a limb and saying "oh, it could happen, so it will". It makes no sense to assume that when the game provides nothing leading into it. The Drell homeworld doesn't count, as that doesn't have anything to do with the galaxy's state after the Reapers are gone.

As for the Normandy: Shep and his squad was hit by a Reaper's beam. Something that's known to, y'know, completely dissolve anything it touches. Shep and his squad was basically the battle's last hope. With all the evidence to them being killed, why wouldn't Joker high-tail it outta' there?
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