Should Geth have Rights? (Spoilers)

#291Keylime73Posted 6/25/2012 6:08:34 PM
If it comes down to it, Ipick the organics. Every time.

I'm with Javik. Machines are not alive. They exist outside of nature.

They can't be trusted because they view us as flawed and inferior.
#292schlaufuchsMIKEPosted 6/25/2012 6:30:57 PM
And what man can be trusted? Most people will take whatever opportunity they can to trample over you. Example: this discussion. We're discussing the ethics of forcing a supposedly sentient race into subservience.
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"This is America - none of us are supposed to be here." ~ Peter Hornberger, 30Rock
#293merc_ninePosted 6/25/2012 6:47:13 PM
Yes?

I dont think they are alive because they are synthetic machines. They are artificial. Its just not alive. Even Legion or GethVI in my playthrough, says the Reaper code is indicative of life. So they cant truely be alive before that. To me the only way they become alive is with the Reaper code, which also to me, sounds like a terrible idea. But my first playthrough I gave it to them, and yay, peace. But to me the only ending I can pick is destroy, so giving them the upgrade and then picking destroy is actually kind of cruel. So I dont think you should give them the upgrade. Because they remain machines and not alive. They dont get freedom and immediately die, and if I have to be mean to Legion to make that decision Im okay with it. It tries to kill you, but I understand that. So if you dont give them the upgrades they stay machines and dont become little Reapers, its not genocide because at that point they are just Terminators. Legion was different, but it was the only one like that. Thats not all Geth. I dont trust it either. Its always all over Reaper tech. It just came out of a Reaper signal booster device. Get it off my ship. This ones a hologram and just told me the Reapers mind was not important.

Okay. I do think you can stop AI from being created again. I also think that everyone would pretty much agree that AIs are a bad idea. If someone did find out that an Ai had been created. It would get a more serious response from the rest of the galactic community, and they would destroy it before it got out of hand and not just leave it out in space because it only attacked the Quarrians and they are asses anyways. I think the records of the Reapers and the Geth would be pretty good reminders of why that is. AI just could not get to that level of strength before it was detected and destroyed if you destroy the Reapers and the Geth.

I dont think they are alive so I cant give them rights. I know they are intelligent, but its a smart machine that was created to do what its doing. It is a machine, composed of computer programs and simulations.

I think the Reaper Vi is correct, or he has been for countless cycles. Maybe this one is different. Did I feel bad killing the Geth the first time, sure, kinda. But only because I gave them the upgrade which I immediately thought was a mistake, so now I dont do it, and they are just machines.

Yeah, It does matter what the people in charge do. Except its a big galaxy. The Counsil was already against AI before the Geth, thats where the stigma comes from. I dont see how the Quarians would still just settle on Ranochi right away. I dont see how that is even going to last. Maybe. Too risky to me. Same with the Krogan, with Wrex dead, and Maleons data destroyed, I had to pick to sabotage the genophage. Mordin is on the Crucible working and thanked me for not compounding his mistake and hes loving the Crucible work. The Krogan are fighting the Reapers non the wiser, the Dalatras, supplied evidence for the cure being faulty for when the Krogan find out. Its actually really working out quite nicely. Wreav is an ass, and I really feel bad about Eve. I didnt know thats what destroying the research does. crazy. EDI is scary too. Dont get me started on its dark little sense of humor. Why is it even a girl? Its just a voice setting. Shes terrifying. I just like her because she is informative, and if you piss her off, shes the ship soooo, yeah she could kill you all at any time. Its nice that she doesnt. Thats true.

You win. Go Team Synthetic. Green ending here I come.
#294strifechug2Posted 6/25/2012 6:49:53 PM
merc nine you want Shepard dead? = o
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I'll plant an IED right.... here... *dig dig*
#295Chaffer97Posted 6/25/2012 6:52:31 PM
BigKahn posted...
Machines don't have a soul or heart so they can't have rights.


/Topic.


What's your definition of a soul?
#296EmptyBladePosted 6/25/2012 6:59:59 PM
merc_nine posted...

I dont think they are alive because they are synthetic machines.


Christ, I've tried wording it in as many different simple terms as I can. Why do you continue to not understand what I'm saying?

Being 'alive' is entirely beside the point. That's why I made the example with grass; grass is alive but does not have rights. It is intelligent beings that have rights, not alive ones. And it is stated as fact repeatedly in-game that they are intelligent.

But I'm sure you'll just respond to this with more arguments about why they are not alive, despite the fact that that's not what we are discussing.

Okay. I do think you can stop AI from being created again. I also think that everyone would pretty much agree that AIs are a bad idea.


Then you're not in a technological field of work. That kind of thing CAN'T be stopped, anybody who works in this kind of stuff knows that. We've banned biological warfare today, and for very very good reason. But the research is still going on out there and we all know it.

And bioweapons are WAY harder to make than computer research. You need very expensive lab materials, a big sterile facility, etc. Computer researchers, on the other hand, often work from home.

You can't stop AI from being developed, and the longer the galactic community lives, and the more technologically advanced they get, the more true that becomes.

Yeah, It does matter what the people in charge do. Except its a big galaxy.


You are worried that individuals will wage war on behalf of the human race without the approval of their government.

But you don't think individuals can program AI on their own.

Really?
#297Mr_FeeshPosted 6/25/2012 7:00:52 PM
BigKahn posted...
Machines don't have a soul or heart so they can't have rights.


/Topic.

But humans don't have souls either, so that can't be it.
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#298EmptyBladePosted 6/25/2012 8:07:35 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#299merc_ninePosted 6/25/2012 11:02:16 PM
EmptyBlade posted...
merc_nine posted...

I dont think they are alive because they are synthetic machines.


Christ, I've tried wording it in as many different simple terms as I can. Why do you continue to not understand what I'm saying?

Being 'alive' is entirely beside the point. That's why I made the example with grass; grass is alive but does not have rights. It is intelligent beings that have rights, not alive ones. And it is stated as fact repeatedly in-game that they are intelligent.

But I'm sure you'll just respond to this with more arguments about why they are not alive, despite the fact that that's not what we are discussing.

Okay. I do think you can stop AI from being created again. I also think that everyone would pretty much agree that AIs are a bad idea.


Then you're not in a technological field of work. That kind of thing CAN'T be stopped, anybody who works in this kind of stuff knows that. We've banned biological warfare today, and for very very good reason. But the research is still going on out there and we all know it.

And bioweapons are WAY harder to make than computer research. You need very expensive lab materials, a big sterile facility, etc. Computer researchers, on the other hand, often work from home.

You can't stop AI from being developed, and the longer the galactic community lives, and the more technologically advanced they get, the more true that becomes.

Yeah, It does matter what the people in charge do. Except its a big galaxy.


You are worried that individuals will wage war on behalf of the human race without the approval of their government.

But you don't think individuals can program AI on their own.

Really?


Yes that is what we are discussing because things that arent alive dont have rights. To even begin to have rights, something needs to be alive. What the F is your question at this point. Intelligence doesnt give rights either. Your computer can compute many different factors at once and is intelligent but it doesnt have rights.

Its a machine, it doesnt have rights
Its a machine, so its not alive, so it doesnt have rights
it has highly advanced computer brain and is intelligent, it still doesnt have rights.
It is a thing. Things dont have rights.
Rights are something that is agreed on by society. In ME the entire galactic community other than other synthetics and one crazy admiral that tried to exile Tali agree that the Geth do not deserve rights and no one misses them.

Why do the Geth deserve rights?

Sustainable Energy Technologies R&D is very non technological, youre right.

The reason the Geth got to the point they are is because the Council races deemed it not necessary to do anything because they only killed Quarians. That would not be the response the next time. There would be no way that anyone could make something as advanced as the Geth and not receive a swift response from the rest of the galaxy before it got out of hand again.

if there was some sort of epidemic that threatened the entire galaxy, Im pretty sure there would be a lot more sanctions and an agreement could be made that bioweapons are obviously a bad idea.

AI research cant be stopped, and now who sounds like StarChild?

Bioweapons are not harder to make than true AIs. Lets just fart and see if it sounds good. Thats what your statement was. ppppllllloooopsosoppp

No Im not worried about individual humans. Again, you take one sentence and twist it out of context. In context it says that its a big galaxy that the COunsil cant watch over every inch at all times but it would certainly eventually find out if there was another Ai race on the rise even at 1/100 of the strength of the geth and put a stop to it before it escalated.
#300Retneug(Topic Creator)Posted 6/28/2012 10:32:46 AM
After pages of discussion intended for this thread this is a little OT, but I just want to quickly admit that I was wrong about what the EC would contain. After experiencing it it's clear to me that there's no way IT theory could have been revealed in that 15-minutes-or-so of cutscene; call it denial, but I still believe this revelation is coming down the pipes.

For one, I still have no explanation as to how Shep could survive the citadel explosion... And the Catalyst's voice after the "no, **** you!" ending makes me more certain than ever that I don't want to trust him. So, I'll wait and see what future DLC brings.
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