Should Geth have Rights? (Spoilers)

#31AngieFanPosted 6/8/2012 12:40:37 PM
JediNaruto posted...
AngieFan posted...
we could have this same discussion regiarding a number of science fiction tales the most recent popular one i think being the animatirx short The Second Renaissance. cept in that one the machines are able to overcome there captors and become the dominating species.


But the Geth have said they just want to be left alone right?


and in the beginning the macines of zion just wanted to live in peace beside mankind, mankind felt threatened and attacked. in defense the machines struck back and it was deemed that for them to live humanity had to die.
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#32AngieFanPosted 6/8/2012 12:41:35 PM
the machines of 01, sorry still cant edit topics for another 40 or so days
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#33plasticman13Posted 6/8/2012 12:42:25 PM
It's kind of unfair to ask this because Geth aren't human, and what TC is asking is if HUMAN rights should be extended to the Geth. I disagree with that because the Geth are completely different than humans, thus human rights do not apply to them.

Now, if you're talking about rights such as the right to live freely, or NATURAL rights that every living creature has, then I would still say no because they're not organic living creatures. They cannot feel emotion and they cannot feel pain. They're only machines who will only look out for themselves at all costs and will never have proper morales or empathy for other creatures. They're also ruthless, killing without care. Therefore, due to them not having morales, the ability to feel empathy, pain and sorrow, they do not have natural rights.
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#34JediNarutoPosted 6/8/2012 12:44:00 PM
AngieFan posted...
JediNaruto posted...
AngieFan posted...
we could have this same discussion regiarding a number of science fiction tales the most recent popular one i think being the animatirx short The Second Renaissance. cept in that one the machines are able to overcome there captors and become the dominating species.


But the Geth have said they just want to be left alone right?


and in the beginning the macines of zion just wanted to live in peace beside mankind, mankind felt threatened and attacked. in defense the machines struck back and it was deemed that for them to live humanity had to die.


Yes but we cant know that the Geth would ever try to do something like becoming dominant, and they are not currently trying to live alongside humanity, they just want to be in their own part of space.
#35NicodaemosPosted 6/8/2012 12:45:13 PM
From: plasticman13 | #033
They cannot feel emotion and they cannot feel pain. They're only machines who will only look out for themselves at all costs and will never have proper morales or empathy for other creatures. They're also ruthless, killing without care. Therefore, due to them not having morales, the ability to feel empathy, pain and sorrow, they do not have natural rights.

Legion, EDI. Also, it's morals.

/yourpoint
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#36plasticman13Posted 6/8/2012 12:58:50 PM
From: Nicodaemos | #035
From: plasticman13 | #033
They cannot feel emotion and they cannot feel pain. They're only machines who will only look out for themselves at all costs and will never have proper morales or empathy for other creatures. They're also ruthless, killing without care. Therefore, due to them not having morales, the ability to feel empathy, pain and sorrow, they do not have natural rights.

Legion, EDI. Also, it's morals.

/yourpoint



Legion didn't have any feelings. For all we know he was trying to trick Shepard so that he wouldn't destroy the Geth. Legion's true intentions are revealed when you go Renegade and choose to destroy the Geth because all of his so called "emotions" fly out the window when he nearly kills Shepard. Like I said, the Geth feel no empathy for other creatures and only care about self preservation. That's why they turn into ruthless killing machines when they're threatened. As for living in "peace" with the Quarians, we have no evidence that the Geth will actually live in peace. They can easily keep the Quarians as "comrades" and once they feel threatened (planet overpopulation, resource depletion) they will go on a massive killing spree for self preservation, once again from to the lack of empathy or intrinsic values due to being machines.

EDI is the same. She does not know emotions or empathy. She is a machine (or AI/computer program) that only responds to complex algorithms (think of an advanced Siri from the iPhone).
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To the trolls in this topic:
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#37darknessryPosted 6/8/2012 1:02:07 PM
PowerofFusion posted...
MrPibbRules posted...
Sentience isn't created,

According to whom?

you either have it or you don't

The Geth appear to.


Tell me. Did your mother and father have to perform some sort of neurological operation on you to think freely? Have you ever been prevented the ability of free thought? When do you remember ever being denied the ability to observe your surroundings? You can't.

The Geth must be given these abilities, through code and circuit, and only in a specific way. The geth are not living beings, they're machines. To even define them in such a way insults the concept of mortality.


Similar to how a child is created, Geth are made. They are given hardware, a body. They are given a mind/soul software. They are given thought, processing data. So why are you rejecting a right that a child has to a Ai? Children can't think for themselves as adults do, so then why does something that can think more complexly than a baby and more mature than a baby be not available to rights they had no chance of having? Was it because organisms are born not created, therefore they are bound to impurities? Are you scared of corruptions? And to answer you questions:


Did your mother and father have to perform some sort of neurological operation on you to think freely?

No, but Geth didn't need this either they were "born" with it.

Have you ever been prevented the ability of free thought?

Because it can be done easily on synthetics is not the question. Have you ever heard of a lobotomy? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it may be used to prevent thought and restrict actions on a subject.

When do you remember ever being denied the ability to observe your surroundings?

This one is easy, as anything can be forced on a being. Drugs can prevent everything: touch, taste, smell, hearing, and sight.

The Geth must be given these abilities, through code and circuit, and only in a specific way.

Once again correct me if I'm wrong but aren't child given these abilities via natural means? Does it really matter if it's given via natural means or code and circuit? DNA must be made in a specific way or you get mutations which still have flaws, as every person has on average 3-4.

The geth are not living beings, they're machines. To even define them in such a way insults the concept of mortality.

life
noun
1.
the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.

According to this, life is organic, manifested, reproduced, and adapted.

I consider geth to be sub-organic because they have life features with a hard body.

They have manifested to be conscious and collective.

They build each other, therefore they reproduce.

They adapt when they learned to survive without their Creators and when they adapted to
fight back during the QG War. These adaptions were thoughts and not to be made on hardware.
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#38Necro_Fear89Posted 6/8/2012 1:09:20 PM
It doesn't matter if they had to be upgraded to receive a conscience, the fact is that they received it and are therefore considered living beings capable of thoughs and undertanding. Your toster doesn't count as sentient because it can't talk or make decisions, the geth can, you have to think beyond the limits of mortality to judge what a sentient being is.
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#39Jstretch19Posted 6/8/2012 1:11:34 PM
You do realize that humans can have no morals too right? And that the Geth have not concept of morals because they aren't the same as humans. As Legion said, judging another people by how your people normally act is racist.
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#40armydominican69Posted 6/8/2012 1:14:06 PM
im surprised Merc-Nine hasnt shown up yet, his answer will undoubtedly be...

"No the Geth are evil blah blah blah"