Should Geth have Rights? (Spoilers)

#71BhelliumPosted 6/8/2012 9:28:09 PM
Geth actually meet the standard definition for a living organism. Ask your nearest biologist for details.
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#72Mellow_RGPosted 6/8/2012 9:39:48 PM
sci-fi should have more silicon based lifeforms

carbon is way overused
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#73BhelliumPosted 6/8/2012 9:50:05 PM
carbon used to be underground
now it's what everyone has
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#74Retneug(Topic Creator)Posted 6/8/2012 10:16:24 PM
merc_nine posted...
Have any geth been destroyed until this game? I know your killed their platform, but dont they exist in the servers or something. So its not really even. I think they are not alive. I think they mimics life very well. Its the best way to get you to let them live. And they almooost get you to give them the Reaper upgrades, but I know no one in here did that, because Reapers are bad, and we know that everything that uses Reaper tech is indoctrinated. Its like making little mini Reapers.


The codex entry for Indoctrination specifically states that it a process that corrupts the mind of an organic being; I don't know if they can necessarily corrupt synthetic beings in the same way. So far, the only example of Geth serving the Reapers in the ME series are the Heretics, and they chose to do it willingly after losing the vote to the other half of the consensus.

I mean, sure, there's risk associated with trusting that they won't turn on organics at some point... But it's the same deal with the krogan. You get told many times throughout the ME series that, if the krogan are allowed to reproduce as they once did, they'd overwhelm the galaxy with their numbers, motivated by their warlike nature. I'd say that's a bigger gamble than sparing a species that has, so far, only acted aggressively if provoked or for ideological reasons. Dooming the Geth because they like to exist as part of a hive-mind seems a little closed-minded to me... And frankly we could learn a thing or two from them in that regard, because they essentially have a perfect democracy in their consensus. I wouldn't be surprised if, one day, humans are networked to one another in a similar way.
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#75BhelliumPosted 6/8/2012 10:28:44 PM
Geth were destroyed w/o the opportunity for them back their data up. Even if they did you could argue that there isn't much difference between destroying one of the Geth troopers and killing the clone of an organic. Sure the original (or back-up as the case may be) still exists but that version was eliminated.
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#76merc_ninePosted 6/9/2012 9:14:38 AM(edited)
Retneug posted...
merc_nine posted...
Have any geth been destroyed until this game? I know your killed their platform, but dont they exist in the servers or something. So its not really even. I think they are not alive. I think they mimics life very well. Its the best way to get you to let them live. And they almooost get you to give them the Reaper upgrades, but I know no one in here did that, because Reapers are bad, and we know that everything that uses Reaper tech is indoctrinated. Its like making little mini Reapers.


The codex entry for Indoctrination specifically states that it a process that corrupts the mind of an organic being; I don't know if they can necessarily corrupt synthetic beings in the same way. So far, the only example of Geth serving the Reapers in the ME series are the Heretics, and they chose to do it willingly after losing the vote to the other half of the consensus.

I mean, sure, there's risk associated with trusting that they won't turn on organics at some point... But it's the same deal with the krogan. You get told many times throughout the ME series that, if the krogan are allowed to reproduce as they once did, they'd overwhelm the galaxy with their numbers, motivated by their warlike nature. I'd say that's a bigger gamble than sparing a species that has, so far, only acted aggressively if provoked or for ideological reasons. Dooming the Geth because they like to exist as part of a hive-mind seems a little closed-minded to me... And frankly we could learn a thing or two from them in that regard, because they essentially have a perfect democracy in their consensus. I wouldn't be surprised if, one day, humans are networked to one another in a similar way.


I hope that day never comes when we are all linked. I really dont want to part of a hive mind, and it sounds like a very slippery slope and eerily similar to the way Javik describes the machines of his cycle

I know that they cant be indoctrinated the same way organics can. It actually seems much easier. The Reapers clearly corrupt the geth at will. I agree about the Krogans. You should sabotage the genophage. Its short sighted to cure it, unless Wrex is around and my only reason for thinking they might behave is the paintings in their underground city. I played the game all lollipops and sunshine the first time I played it. Im not saying picking the paragon option is always wrong, but as in everything, if you are too nice, you get taken advantage of. You are supposed to be making tough decisions, not trying to make everyone happy.

I dont think the geth are evil. They are machines that are easily corrupted. I think organics and synthetics can not coexist. So as an organic, I think we should destroy them. The only saving grace is that its a big galaxy and they can keep to themselves. But keeping to themselves, I think they become the future Reapers. Im looking past this game and into the future when I say these things. THis game would be more interesting if their were consequences to your actions and not just differences. Why shouldnt the Geth be destroyed? I mean if you want to change the definition of life and say they are alive, fine, you should still destroy them. The reason there will always be conflict is US. but as part of us, Im not going to side with the machines. If there will never be lasting peace, then lets get it over with. Destroy em when you have a chance.

So no, they shouldnt have rights. If they do. still doesnt matter. Destroy them.
They arent alive, but If they are, still doesnt matter. Destroy them.

the geth arent bad, those were just bad geth. We are good geth. Oh, well then good to have you on board. Here, have access to all our databases and classified information.

Destroy the Geth, Destroy the Rachni, trick the Krogan.

If I was a synthetic, I would think the same thing towards organics, but Id be more calculating.
#77merc_ninePosted 6/9/2012 9:33:33 AM
I also think the Reapers use organics to strengthen their numbers but destroying or controlling the machines of the cycle makes more sense as their true purpose. Your human hive mind could be considered similar to the Reapers way of thought and to Javiks cycles machines in a way. All the evidence I have about machines is bad, except what Legion says and I find them to be extremely calculating.
#78OmniVoidPosted 6/9/2012 12:33:06 PM
I think all the semantics about whether Geth are, in a dictionary sense, "alive", "organic", "natural", "sentient", etcetera etcetera is a bit silly. Words are symbols with no inherent, intrinsic, or ultimate set-in-stone definition.

Their meanings continually change and adapt due to the nature of their usage, describing the world around us by association with it more than defining it. We use them to relate our experiences to others, but what we associate with words defines them more than the words define what we're trying to express to others.

So using definitions as proof of anything is silly.


In terms of the "rights" of Geth, I agree that "rights" are more of a social construct than something bestowed by the Gods. Though my personal belief is that all things deserve respect.

Geth have the capability to interact socially with Organics, and the ability to enter in every metaphorical arena Organics have ended up in or created for themselves. For Geth and Organics to be anything other than vicious rivals; rights, a "social contract" must be upheld. Even if the contract is purely implied by displays of respect or allowing of free will.

When it isn't, things like the Morning War happen. I believe that the Geth deserve rights because of their self-awareness; but even from a machine-hating purely logical standpoint, denying the Geth their free will will result in them forcibly exercising it. And there isn't any real reason to try and stop them from doing what they will as there's no compelling evidence that the Geth are a threat to Organics without provocation, which I'll explain with what I posted in the IT thread that I don't believe received a direct response.


Some of you say you want the Geth and AI destroyed because you believe they'll eventually turn on Organics. That's self-preservation of Organics, which you place above any kind of mutual benefits there would be to co-existing with the Geth. You mainly want to wipe them out because you view them as a threat, yes? It's the same kind of preservation instinct that you're claiming would drive the Geth to eventually destroy Organics.

The thing of it is, the Geth don't need resources nearly as much as we Organics do. They only need energy (much easier than an entire population's food), very little physical space in ANY climate as opposed to lots of only organic-friendly ones, and the materials needed to construct new platforms or structures like their beloved Dyson Sphere (which would likely be a fraction of what would be needed to build new Organic cities and maintain them).

All of their survival needs are very easily met, and they don't need to even be around Organics at all if they don't want to because of how easy it is for them to survive. There's no competition of resources if all of their needs are met, so they have no reason to destroy or even compete in any way with Organics unless Organics directly and uncompromisingly attack the Geth.
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#79WebstedgePosted 6/9/2012 12:38:50 PM
yes because the writers obviously meant for us to sympathize with them.
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#80schlaufuchsMIKEPosted 6/9/2012 12:40:46 PM
Webstedge posted...
yes because the writers obviously meant for us to sympathize with them.


Nice, this is my favorite answer. Cuts right to the root of the issue :)
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