Bioware at it once again! Complaining about customers is a full time job

#261edgecrusher02Posted 1/13/2013 8:04:44 AM
IX9 posted...
Wii0player posted...
as far as context goes, the term deus ex machina doesnt even really apply here. the catalyst is far from a "god" in the context that term is referring to.


How does it not apply? Deus ex Machina is defined as: An unexpected power or event saving a hopeless situation.

It has been stated in the narrative of Mass Effect 3 that the Reapers cannot be defeated through conventional weaponry. They need the Crucible to defeat the reapers. When Shepard confronts the starchild he gives Shepard three ways to save a hopeless situation.


well the actual thing that "solves" it is the crucible in all actuality. and the alliance builds it, not the catalyst. even then the crucible was introduced in the very beginning of the game at at. the term originates from greek plays and refers to a god coming in to solve the problem at the last minute. the catalyst is far from that, people are giving it too much credit, lol. its a machine made by life that naturally occurs in this galaxy. the alliance built the crucible, got it to the citadel, docked it, and shepard is the one that activates it and chooses what it does even. that scenario would have been NO different it instead of the catalyst it was harbinger that explained everything. the catalyst does nothing but reveal what the reapers purpose was in which case, SOMEONE was going to do that at some point. unless you are one of those that think that the reapers should have remained a mystery. in which case evil machines(meaning that someone had to have created them and with a purpose) being evil just for the sake of having a villian is very lazy writing.

in all actuality the method in which the why of the reapers is revealed is for the most part irrelevant. why would the enemy reveal anything to us unless it is part of its purpose? it seems people are still stuck in the way of thinking that the catalyst/reapers are ultimately "evil." last time i checked a typical villain does not present the option to and let you choose.... to destroy them.
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religion is flawed because man is flawed
#262IX9Posted 1/13/2013 12:23:57 PM
edgecrusher02 posted...
IX9 posted...
Wii0player posted...
as far as context goes, the term deus ex machina doesnt even really apply here. the catalyst is far from a "god" in the context that term is referring to.


How does it not apply? Deus ex Machina is defined as: An unexpected power or event saving a hopeless situation.

It has been stated in the narrative of Mass Effect 3 that the Reapers cannot be defeated through conventional weaponry. They need the Crucible to defeat the reapers. When Shepard confronts the starchild he gives Shepard three ways to save a hopeless situation.


well the actual thing that "solves" it is the crucible in all actuality. and the alliance builds it, not the catalyst. even then the crucible was introduced in the very beginning of the game at at. the term originates from greek plays and refers to a god coming in to solve the problem at the last minute. the catalyst is far from that, people are giving it too much credit, lol. its a machine made by life that naturally occurs in this galaxy. the alliance built the crucible, got it to the citadel, docked it, and shepard is the one that activates it and chooses what it does even. that scenario would have been NO different it instead of the catalyst it was harbinger that explained everything. the catalyst does nothing but reveal what the reapers purpose was in which case, SOMEONE was going to do that at some point.


Well, the problem is that the alliance did not build it, they finished a device that other previous cycles started. It is still a device that is introduced at the last minute of the story which is the ONLY way of defeating the reapers. Without this device there is no chance of defeating the problems which means the war with the reapers can not be won. This is further proven in that no matter what you do in ME 3 the Crucible will always be finished.

A Deus ex machina comes at the end of a story. Now if Mass Effect 2 at least pointed out that there may be a way to defeat the reapers with an unknown to device then its not a Deus ex machina.

unless you are one of those that think that the reapers should have remained a mystery. in which case evil machines(meaning that someone had to have created them and with a purpose) being evil just for the sake of having a villian is very lazy writing.

in all actuality the method in which the why of the reapers is revealed is for the most part irrelevant. why would the enemy reveal anything to us unless it is part of its purpose? it seems people are still stuck in the way of thinking that the catalyst/reapers are ultimately "evil."


What mystery? Sovereign was pretty much saying that me and my friends are coming to do what we have always did, let you advance the way we want you to and to wipe you out when your at your best. There is no mystery to that statement the Reapers are evil period That whole conversation in ME 1 established the characters of the Reapers. There was no need to subvert their reasoning at the end.

last time i checked a typical villain does not present the option to and let you choose.... to destroy them.


True which is why so many people do not understand the ending.
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"I'm going to rip your tongue out and wipe my **s with it!" Redman - DJV:FFNY
#263edgecrusher02Posted 1/13/2013 12:53:26 PM
IX9 posted...


What mystery? Sovereign was pretty much saying that me and my friends are coming to do what we have always did, let you advance the way we want you to and to wipe you out when your at your best. There is no mystery to that statement the Reapers are evil period That whole conversation in ME 1 established the characters of the Reapers. There was no need to subvert their reasoning at the end.

last time i checked a typical villain does not present the option to and let you choose.... to destroy them.


True which is why so many people do not understand the ending.


to each his own. i dont think something that is introduced in the very beginning of the third act is the same thing as being introduced in the last 30 minutes. the alliance may not have came up with it, but they discovered it, decided to use it, built it, and activated it.

as far as mystery goes, what the reapers were doing was never a mystery. but WHY they were has always been a mystery. since they are machines, to leave out the "why" behind the reapers is something i would consider to be bad writing.
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religion is flawed because man is flawed
#264Will446(Topic Creator)Posted 1/17/2013 11:31:19 AM
edgecrusher02 posted...
IX9 posted...


What mystery? Sovereign was pretty much saying that me and my friends are coming to do what we have always did, let you advance the way we want you to and to wipe you out when your at your best. There is no mystery to that statement the Reapers are evil period That whole conversation in ME 1 established the characters of the Reapers. There was no need to subvert their reasoning at the end.

last time i checked a typical villain does not present the option to and let you choose.... to destroy them.


True which is why so many people do not understand the ending.


to each his own. i dont think something that is introduced in the very beginning of the third act is the same thing as being introduced in the last 30 minutes. the alliance may not have came up with it, but they discovered it, decided to use it, built it, and activated it.

as far as mystery goes, what the reapers were doing was never a mystery. but WHY they were has always been a mystery. since they are machines, to leave out the "why" behind the reapers is something i would consider to be bad writing.



Problem with that though is they promised there would be no a,b,c ending.
#265edgecrusher02Posted 1/17/2013 11:37:40 AM
Will446 posted...



Problem with that though is they promised there would be no a,b,c ending.


yea they did kind of screw themselves with that comment. and "technically" there are enough variations of those endings that it isnt that. but if you have to use the word technically to describe it then it is close enough to warrant debating it in the first place.
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religion is flawed because man is flawed
#266ArnoldtheRedPosted 1/17/2013 6:00:25 PM
AnonymousFriend posted...


A lot of "problems" do stem from people forgetting that this is Bioware's story, not their's.


Wrong. Bioware stated multiple times since say 1 that this is supposed to be our Shepard, and our story, and that canon does not exist.
#267BushidoEffect3Posted 1/20/2013 5:17:13 PM
Mr_Feesh posted...
LilyxLightning posted...
Mr_Feesh posted...
It's a textbook example of DEM.

: a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty

One word: Vendetta. A VI which serves to tell you how the ending is going to go down and foreshadow the creator of the Reapers.

Regardless, the Catalyst on its own would be absolutely useless to stopping the Reapers without the Crucible, which you spend the entire game building (and how much effort you put into it has a major impact in the end).


I actually agree with you (though Vendetta is arguable). The story is fundamentally flawed long before the ending.


I agree as well. Even the opening sequence felt off. Simplified and rushed to attempt to ease in new players who never played 1 or 2.
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#268edgecrusher02Posted 1/20/2013 5:43:23 PM
ArnoldtheRed posted...
AnonymousFriend posted...


A lot of "problems" do stem from people forgetting that this is Bioware's story, not their's.


Wrong. Bioware stated multiple times since say 1 that this is supposed to be our Shepard, and our story, and that canon does not exist.


theres a difference between our shepard and their story. all we do is change up certain situations. to say that something that we had no development control or creation of when it comes to the actual universe or characters is in any way "ours".... is ridiculous. if people want that much control over something like this, they should go create their own universe.
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religion is flawed because man is flawed
#269fennell92Posted 1/20/2013 5:52:50 PM
Why the **** won't this topic just die!?
#270edgecrusher02Posted 1/20/2013 5:54:39 PM
fennell92 posted...
Why the **** won't this topic just die!?


it lives!!!!!!!
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religion is flawed because man is flawed