Bioware at it once again! Complaining about customers is a full time job

#281edgecrusher02Posted 1/23/2013 10:53:37 AM
The_404s posted...
Anyone who can defend BioWare after the ME3 ending, Dragon Age 2 and SWTOR really needs to reevaluate their lives and stop being such a damned fanboy.

There is no objective way of looking at it; those three things were awful. No matter what mental gymnastics you preform to try to justify ME3's ending, no matter how much you tell yourself "Dragon Age 2 was good, really!" and no matter how much you ignore the large hole in the side of SWTOR, they're all bad.

I was a fan of BioWare since Jade Empire and KoTOR 1 & 2 on the XBox, and those games were something else. I don't think anyone could have looked at them back then and guessed they'd sink as low as they have.

They've become a company that used to dole out good games like it was nothing to a company that shoots only for "Good enough" and tries to sell us the rest as DLC.

I sincerely hope BioWare never touches KoTOR and Jade Empire again, who knows what kind of monstrosities they'd conjure up.



i think the mistake is expecting that a company that has released so many games would release something "perfect" every time. which in all actuality makes no sense anyway as there is always objectively looking at things when it comes to fiction. the story is there, i just think many people cant see it beyond the typical "stop the bad guys" scenario for what it really is. it is nowhere near that simple. looking at the conflict in the game objectively is something that people arent doing as well. the series has always been about choices and the morality that comes with them. why would the ending not be the same? to each his own i guess. im just glad it wasnt as simple as stopping the reapers and victoriously parading shepard through the streets. i always thought this game was more than that kind of typical when it comes to story telling.

also... this thread lives again!!!
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religion is flawed because man is flawed
#282some09guy IIPosted 1/23/2013 11:36:23 AM
gunsndroses posted...
Let's be honest here.

A video game is considered a volume of artistic work. Artists create as they see fit. Now, get this- and this is the really funny part- because some people didn't like the work, they flew into a fit of rage and demanded, petitioned, and even filed legal suit against the creator in order to get it changed.

Imagine if people nowadays were outraged over the Mona Lisa, or Adele's "Someone Like You." Wouldn't it be insane if some idiots tried to get the artists (let's pretend Da Vinci isn't dead for a moment) to change their work just because it wasn't well-received?

It was BioWare's work. They could do as they saw fit with the ending. It was theirs to decide, not their whining, self-entitled, introverted fanbase.

This is why the ending-controversy was so absolutely insane.

Now, I'm making a lot of generalizations here. Not every ME fan is like this; in fact, most don't give two ****s, like myself. However, the "extremists" as I will call them are a vocal majority, and it is really annoying.


I've seen this comparison before and it's a failed analogy. You're comparing a work that is created without expectation to something which is more along the lines of commissioned.

If I were to hire an artist to create a portrait of myself and he did so to my expectations, then hired him again to draw my wife only to have him put on a swirly mustache at the end I would very certainly have a problem with the work and would demand it be changed if he were to ever have any remote hope of being hired by me, or recommended by me to others, in the future.

gunsndroses posted...
Except Broken Steel WAS NOT the result of some insane ending controversy like this. That was the result of Bethesda wanting to make some new DLC.


LOLwhat? No. Just no.

Remind me when the Fallout fans created as big a ****storm as this following FO3's release? Oh wait, you can't.


XD Oh God. My sides.

Ok, to be fair it wasn't as big a s*** storm as this. But...yeah.

Also laughing at the idea that Bioware is not in any sort of trouble. Let's see, they've only lost their best designer, one of their best writers, and both owners, among others, the last couple years, created the greatest commercial flop in gaming history, took one of the most successful starting RPGs in history and their best-seller and completely squandered the gathering fanbase with a lackluster sequel which completely changed the direction they were aiming, created a controversy so out of hand and of such failtastic proportions that the regular media took notice, lost an IP, lost two studios, almost got their CEO of a multi billion dollar corporation fired, and had massive layoffs to some of their remaining studios.

Yeah, they're absolutely fine.
#283Brandonkillen22Posted 1/23/2013 12:04:01 PM
The_404s posted...
Anyone who can defend BioWare after the ME3 ending, Dragon Age 2 and SWTOR really needs to reevaluate their lives and stop being such a damned fanboy.

There is no objective way of looking at it; those three things were awful. No matter what mental gymnastics you preform to try to justify ME3's ending, no matter how much you tell yourself "Dragon Age 2 was good, really!" and no matter how much you ignore the large hole in the side of SWTOR, they're all bad.

I was a fan of BioWare since Jade Empire and KoTOR 1 & 2 on the XBox, and those games were something else. I don't think anyone could have looked at them back then and guessed they'd sink as low as they have.

They've become a company that used to dole out good games like it was nothing to a company that shoots only for "Good enough" and tries to sell us the rest as DLC.

I sincerely hope BioWare never touches KoTOR and Jade Empire again, who knows what kind of monstrosities they'd conjure up.


Simply put...some of us simply just like the games. If gamefaqs was a control group for spying on game discussion then we would have no video games. All that gets done here is complaining about stuff. To be fair, there were problems with the games...there are problems with all games including the best games...but that's going to happen.
We as fans contradict ourselves way to much. We want the same thing over and over again. COD does that ever year and what do people do? Complain that it's the same. So then developers change things up. Dragon age or Mass effect or the halo games...what do we do? Complain that it's different. I think we all need to take a step back and just enjoy games instead of always complaining about them. If it doesn't break the game then is it really that bad?
#284edgecrusher02Posted 1/23/2013 12:45:09 PM
Brandonkillen22 posted...
The_404s posted...
Anyone who can defend BioWare after the ME3 ending, Dragon Age 2 and SWTOR really needs to reevaluate their lives and stop being such a damned fanboy.

There is no objective way of looking at it; those three things were awful. No matter what mental gymnastics you preform to try to justify ME3's ending, no matter how much you tell yourself "Dragon Age 2 was good, really!" and no matter how much you ignore the large hole in the side of SWTOR, they're all bad.

I was a fan of BioWare since Jade Empire and KoTOR 1 & 2 on the XBox, and those games were something else. I don't think anyone could have looked at them back then and guessed they'd sink as low as they have.

They've become a company that used to dole out good games like it was nothing to a company that shoots only for "Good enough" and tries to sell us the rest as DLC.

I sincerely hope BioWare never touches KoTOR and Jade Empire again, who knows what kind of monstrosities they'd conjure up.


Simply put...some of us simply just like the games. If gamefaqs was a control group for spying on game discussion then we would have no video games. All that gets done here is complaining about stuff. To be fair, there were problems with the games...there are problems with all games including the best games...but that's going to happen.
We as fans contradict ourselves way to much. We want the same thing over and over again. COD does that ever year and what do people do? Complain that it's the same. So then developers change things up. Dragon age or Mass effect or the halo games...what do we do? Complain that it's different. I think we all need to take a step back and just enjoy games instead of always complaining about them. If it doesn't break the game then is it really that bad?


i didnt want to say it but... this.

the games that sell the most are the ones that are the simple straight shooters with the almost entirely predictable narrative. if those people were playing mass effect and expected the same thing, then yea... they would be upset. i dont get why so many people seem to be ok with changing the ending to what would be just that. a predictable end in which the good guys defeat the "bad guys" when everything else about the story suggests that it is not that simple. its like many people are completely ok with making it just like everything else in that regard.
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religion is flawed because man is flawed
#285some09guy IIPosted 1/23/2013 1:24:27 PM
Brandonkillen22 posted...
Simply put...some of us simply just like the games. If gamefaqs was a control group for spying on game discussion then we would have no video games. All that gets done here is complaining about stuff. To be fair, there were problems with the games...there are problems with all games including the best games...but that's going to happen.
We as fans contradict ourselves way to much. We want the same thing over and over again. COD does that ever year and what do people do? Complain that it's the same. So then developers change things up. Dragon age or Mass effect or the halo games...what do we do? Complain that it's different. I think we all need to take a step back and just enjoy games instead of always complaining about them. If it doesn't break the game then is it really that bad?


I think this is simplifying matters too much. Many developers of late have fallen into a lot of traps that makes many major releases less than stellar. No game is perfect, but it's becoming more and more rare to find games that have nigh universal praise. Part of that is people will always find something to complain about, but another big part is that developers are giving them reason to complain.

How many people really b****** and moaned when the first Modern Warfare came out? Not all that many, really. MW2 comes around and it's largely more of the same only with a story that is poor even by B movie standards and people began complaining. You get games like Mass Effect where each new entry radically changes the mechanics from the previous, removes features, and contains a number of inconsistencies from the previous entry and you wonder why people get upset? Or Dragon Age where the series was built and hyped as a throwback to old school classics only for the next entry to be about, "press a button, something awesome happens. Button, awesome." You Get Assassin's Creed which, instead of finding ways to evolve its mechanics and refine its story, comes around with a copycat sequel every year, each more full of glitches than the last. You have this ridiculous graphics race going on to the point where 2008-era graphics are considered horrible and unacceptable, but sub 30 FPS and small, linear levels are perfectly fine. You have careful level design taking a backseat to long corridor fights in which enemies are throw haphazardly at the player. You have companies like EA who refuse to produce games any longer unless they have multiplayer. You have everyone trying to copy off the successes of CoD, Skyrim, or Gears of War instead of trying to develop and fund games with certain funds and target audiences in mind.

I want to enjoy games, but it's becoming difficult when a lot of titles are akin to pulp trash you'd pick out in the bargain bin of a bookstore. This isn't to say good games aren't coming out. How many people really have much complaint for Far Cry 3, for instance? Titles like Minecraft, Amnesia, Hotline: Miami, FTL, Bastion, Mark of the Ninja, Journey, The Walking Dead, Portal 2, Dark Souls, Spec Ops: The Line and the like get plenty of love with little in the way of complaints. Are any of them perfect? Hell no, but they try to do their own thing, do so well, and don't fall into many of the above traps. Even add in a few of the more controversial titles, that aren't near so universally loved, but aren't aiming to be and thus don't entertain so much controversy. Titles like Dishonored, The Witcher 2 or Shogun 2.
#286Finish_th_FightPosted 1/23/2013 1:33:43 PM
Brandonkillen22 posted...
The_404s posted...
Anyone who can defend BioWare after the ME3 ending, Dragon Age 2 and SWTOR really needs to reevaluate their lives and stop being such a damned fanboy.

There is no objective way of looking at it; those three things were awful. No matter what mental gymnastics you preform to try to justify ME3's ending, no matter how much you tell yourself "Dragon Age 2 was good, really!" and no matter how much you ignore the large hole in the side of SWTOR, they're all bad.

I was a fan of BioWare since Jade Empire and KoTOR 1 & 2 on the XBox, and those games were something else. I don't think anyone could have looked at them back then and guessed they'd sink as low as they have.

They've become a company that used to dole out good games like it was nothing to a company that shoots only for "Good enough" and tries to sell us the rest as DLC.

I sincerely hope BioWare never touches KoTOR and Jade Empire again, who knows what kind of monstrosities they'd conjure up.


Simply put...some of us simply just like the games. If gamefaqs was a control group for spying on game discussion then we would have no video games. All that gets done here is complaining about stuff. To be fair, there were problems with the games...there are problems with all games including the best games...but that's going to happen.
We as fans contradict ourselves way to much. We want the same thing over and over again. COD does that ever year and what do people do? Complain that it's the same. So then developers change things up. Dragon age or Mass effect or the halo games...what do we do? Complain that it's different. I think we all need to take a step back and just enjoy games instead of always complaining about them. If it doesn't break the game then is it really that bad?


This

Trying to turn this into some deep, complicated mess reeks of justifying a lonely existence.
#287SageOfLifePosted 1/23/2013 1:35:34 PM
Some of the things fans complain about are pretty stupid. That's why serious problems are brushed off so easily.
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I am the lizard queen!
#288some09guy IIPosted 1/23/2013 1:43:21 PM
Finish_th_Fight posted...
Trying to turn this into some deep, complicated mess reeks of justifying a lonely existence.


And trying to brush things aside as a personal issue reeks of cognitive dissonance.
#289blutoblutarskyXPosted 1/23/2013 1:47:05 PM
gunsndroses posted...
Can't blame 'em, honestly. ME fans are some of the most self-entitled I've ever seen, especially after the whole ending controversy.


what the hell are you talking about?

you don't think that fans are entitled to a little group sex finale scene with the crew of the Normandy?

SPOILERS:

i mean if you were marooned on a lush forest world with no way to get back what the hell would you do with the rest of your life?

(original ending).

END SPOILERS


and NO BLOOPER REEL? come on!!!!

you can't tell me commander shepard didn't laugh her ass off at mordin's "dilemma" and make comments. or crap on udina at the citadel2 issue, or try to get Ashley to laugh in the hospital.
#290BhelliumPosted 1/23/2013 1:48:48 PM
never change ME3 board
never change
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If Pluto is not a planet Europe is just West Asia.