Bioware at it once again! Complaining about customers is a full time job

#41edgecrusher02Posted 1/10/2013 3:17:37 PM
i can see the same extremist attitude about this as i can about the ending. it is not nearly as simple as saying it is or isnt art or a product. because its both. if someone were to buy a coffee maker, does this mean that because they didnt like that it also didnt make juice that they should be able to complain to the maker and get it changed to also make juice? no, thats beyond absurd.

when it comes to a video game, can you start it? are you able to access everything it has to offer? can you finish it? if the answer to all these is yes, then as a product it is not broken. the story doesnt even come into play when it comes to this. fictional stories are art no matter the method in which they are told. video games are both art and product in one package. the art is not broken because it cant be, its subjective. the product works as i have completed it in its entirety 4 times.

i find it disturbing that people that seem to care so much for this amazing universe also dont consider one of their preferred mediums of stroy telling to be art in any way. whats the point in telling a story you want to tell if the viewers are just going to have it changed down the road? this line of thinking COMPLETELY hinders creativity and makes it almost pointless to even bother with it in the first place.
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religion is flawed because man is flawed
#42bessy67Posted 1/10/2013 3:18:10 PM
Spartan0fCha0s8 posted...
Nafzger posted...
I don't see why it's a big deal to tell them they screwed up and ask for them to redo it. If I went to a restaurant and the food they brought out wasn't acceptable, I would ask for them to redo it as well.


This isn't food, moron. You didn't order it to your tastes. Its a video game. There is no comparison outside of them both being things you purchase on your own free will with money.


It's just an example. If you buy a product and said product doesn't live up to your expectations for it you are well within your rights to criticize that product and not out of line to ask the maker of that product to make changes. They don't have to listen to you, but it is in a company's best interest to keep its consumers happy.
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GT: Bessy67
#43gunsndrosesPosted 1/10/2013 3:21:19 PM
bessy67 posted...
gunsndroses posted...
Why does everybody justify asking to get the game redone? Who are you to say that something isn't art?


Who are you to say that something is art? When something is designed to be mass produced as entertainment and sell as many copies as possible it is not art. It is a product. Just because something has a story does not make it art.


Your first sentence is true; it could be played both ways. From there on, you're simply wrong, I'll leave it nicely like that.

Examples:

ANY MODERN ART PIECE fits the definition YOU just gave me. Something designed to be MASS PRODUCED as ENTERTAINMENT, and to SELL as many copies as possible.

Literally, any modern art piece.

Your argument remains unconvincing.

Video games nowadays incorporate effects of aesthetics and pleasant soundtracks. Their narratives alone are considered art. Just because they are interactive does not disqualify them.
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I think, therefore I am
#44jessica73Posted 1/10/2013 3:21:25 PM
From: MikeM5 | #038

And there's the fact that the gay community actually only makes up like 1-2% of the world and when you pander to them it alienates most of the bible believing or tradtional marriage supporting world. Let's not get into what is wrong and what is not - let's just look at the facts.
\


alienating the bible believing ones that are okay with interspecies porking and premarital sex in games, I guess
lmao, i like silly joke posts instead of all the dc ones that usually fill the board
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#45Captain_SorzoPosted 1/10/2013 3:24:32 PM
The irony of the initial post is quite tangible. I completely agree with Gaider in this regard. Constructive, level-headed criticism that encourages a thoughtful discussion is fine, but the mindless hate and whining that constitutes so much of the feedback toward DA2 and ME3 that I've seen is something else entirely. BSN in particular is, for the most part, an awful community, and when I do visit it on occasion, I invariably regret it after a few minutes.

That's not to say that I've never been outraged at game developers before. I've been seething off and on about BioWare's own TOR ever since it was announced. But that doesn't give me the right to vent in an online discussion rather than compose an actual coherent argument. That's doubly true on forums being read by developers, people who have devoted years of their lives to making these games.
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"In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." - John 16:33
#46Will446(Topic Creator)Posted 1/10/2013 3:25:18 PM
Spartan0fCha0s8 posted...
Nafzger posted...
I don't see why it's a big deal to tell them they screwed up and ask for them to redo it. If I went to a restaurant and the food they brought out wasn't acceptable, I would ask for them to redo it as well.


This isn't food, moron. You didn't order it to your tastes. Its a video game. There is no comparison outside of them both being things you purchase on your own free will with money.


Food is an art as well. You didn't know that? When you go downtown to a nice Restaurant with an amazing Chef his food is an art.

gunsndroses posted...
Why does everybody justify asking to get the game redone? Who are you to say that something isn't art?


People have been complaining about the Mass Effect ending because for years they promised and even said there would be no a,b,c ending.

As a customer you can object to a product.
#47LilyxLightningPosted 1/10/2013 3:28:06 PM
Well said, David Gaider! I honestly think BioWare should really clamp down on the trolls that have made it their mission to prevent anyone from having a civil discussion about how they like a BioWare game on the BioWare Social Network. While some might consider it censorship, to put it simply, why the heck are you on a BioWare fan site to scream and cry about how you don't like BioWare games? Why are you on a BioWare fan site if all you're going to do is bash BioWare and people who like BioWare?

All the anti-BioWare trolls on the BSN want is to keep BioWare fans away from a BioWare fan site in order to make it seem like their mindset is the only mindset.

bessy67 posted...
It's just an example. If you buy a product and said product doesn't live up to your expectations for it you are well within your rights to criticize that product and not out of line to ask the maker of that product to make changes. They don't have to listen to you, but it is in a company's best interest to keep its consumers happy.

It's storytelling. There is no story that will entertain every single person. No storyteller is obligated to tell a story that you approve of.

If you were to watch an episode of Dora the Explorer and not like one part of it, how would you think others would react if you started a campaign to slander the creators and demand that they ignore everyone who liked the episode in favour of you and you alone?

As far as the trolls that dominate the BSN are concerned, BioWare simply does not have the right to do anything that they disapprove of. And BioWare doing something that they disapprove of is an act of war in their minds.
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#48gunsndrosesPosted 1/10/2013 3:28:51 PM
Will446 posted...
you can object to a product.


Yet once more, you ignore me. You are calling the game a product, not art. This matter is entirely subjective, so neither of us are correct here, but why is the game a product and not art? As art, you can't object. It's ridiculous.
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I think, therefore I am
#49Spartan0fCha0s8Posted 1/10/2013 3:29:34 PM
Will446 posted...
Spartan0fCha0s8 posted...
Nafzger posted...
I don't see why it's a big deal to tell them they screwed up and ask for them to redo it. If I went to a restaurant and the food they brought out wasn't acceptable, I would ask for them to redo it as well.


This isn't food, moron. You didn't order it to your tastes. Its a video game. There is no comparison outside of them both being things you purchase on your own free will with money.


Food is an art as well. You didn't know that? When you go downtown to a nice Restaurant with an amazing Chef his food is an art.

gunsndroses posted...
Why does everybody justify asking to get the game redone? Who are you to say that something isn't art?


People have been complaining about the Mass Effect ending because for years they promised and even said there would be no a,b,c ending.

As a customer you can object to a product.


You can object. You're right. You're an idiot for expecting results. Food is an art, sure. Games are entertainment. Again, there's a huge difference.
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#50Will446(Topic Creator)Posted 1/10/2013 3:31:15 PM
edgecrusher02 posted...
i can see the same extremist attitude about this as i can about the ending. it is not nearly as simple as saying it is or isnt art or a product. because its both. if someone were to buy a coffee maker, does this mean that because they didnt like that it also didnt make juice that they should be able to complain to the maker and get it changed to also make juice? no, thats beyond absurd.

when it comes to a video game, can you start it? are you able to access everything it has to offer? can you finish it? if the answer to all these is yes, then as a product it is not broken. the story doesnt even come into play when it comes to this. fictional stories are art no matter the method in which they are told. video games are both art and product in one package. the art is not broken because it cant be, its subjective. the product works as i have completed it in its entirety 4 times.

i find it disturbing that people that seem to care so much for this amazing universe also dont consider one of their preferred mediums of stroy telling to be art in any way. whats the point in telling a story you want to tell if the viewers are just going to have it changed down the road? this line of thinking COMPLETELY hinders creativity and makes it almost pointless to even bother with it in the first place.


Its a mass produced product and it was marketed and promised years in advance that what happened with Mass Effect 3 would not happen.

Funny thing though someone on the forums three years ago predicted on how the Endings of Mass Effect would be.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/970146/1

It was spot on and the reaction that such an ending would occur was extremely negative.

Its also scary that this person predicted it.