if Peace is unobtainable....

#41nazacuckooPosted 2/1/2013 11:13:53 AM
ToolOwnsYou posted...
We're also punishing the Quarians for the decisions that were made hundreds of years ago. Some acknowledge that it was wrong (Zaal'Koris), some defend the decision (Daro'Xen), but it's all opinion either way.

Humanity bullied the Batarians into some drastic measures too, but I don't see many Balak fans around.

Shepard didn't personally colonize all the free worlds he could find in Batarian space. Garrus didn't give the order to use the genophage. I didn't personally own a slave 150 years before I was born. I think Shepard has a line somewhere on Rannoch that the past doesn't have to define us anymore.

Regardless of what happened in the past, the decision affects the Quarians of today, not their ancestors.



This, so much this^
It's like people treating Germans badly because of what Hitler did over 70 years ago.
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#42Urdnot_RuntPosted 2/1/2013 11:22:52 AM
nazacuckoo posted...
ToolOwnsYou posted...
We're also punishing the Quarians for the decisions that were made hundreds of years ago. Some acknowledge that it was wrong (Zaal'Koris), some defend the decision (Daro'Xen), but it's all opinion either way.

Humanity bullied the Batarians into some drastic measures too, but I don't see many Balak fans around.

Shepard didn't personally colonize all the free worlds he could find in Batarian space. Garrus didn't give the order to use the genophage. I didn't personally own a slave 150 years before I was born. I think Shepard has a line somewhere on Rannoch that the past doesn't have to define us anymore.

Regardless of what happened in the past, the decision affects the Quarians of today, not their ancestors.



This, so much this^
It's like people treating Germans badly because of what Hitler did over 70 years ago.


No it's not, because the germans aren't still doing what they were doing 70 years ago, unlike the quarians who are throwing their own civilians in the front line to attack the geth, AGAIN.
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#43Urdnot_RuntPosted 2/1/2013 11:32:05 AM(edited)
bessy67 posted...
Urdnot_Runt posted...
Hell, the quarians were even killing their own people who sympathized with the geth. It's no wonder the quarians had so many casualties.

And like I said, the people comparing the geth to cars, lawnmowers, calling them 'toasters" etc, are simply catering to their own headcanon that goes against the narrative that goes to great lengths to establish that the quarians created *beings* whether they realized it or not at the time.


It does not go against the narrative to point out that geth are machines created to make work easier for the quarians, much like lawnmowers or cars. And if lawnmowers or cars suddenly started becoming sentient you can be sure that humans would eradicate them.


sure, we would. Why not? And if they won and drove us away from earth they would be in their right to do so as sentient beings with a will to avoid genocide of their kind. And if there were aliens or something watching us they would say we brought it on our selves for assuming the responsibility of God/Creator/etc, underestimating our creation and then trying to commit genocide only to have it backfire.
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#44bessy67Posted 2/1/2013 11:27:09 AM
Urdnot_Runt posted...
bessy67 posted...
Urdnot_Runt posted...
Hell, the quarians were even killing their own people who sympathized with the geth. It's no wonder the quarians had so many casualties.

And like I said, the people comparing the geth to cars, lawnmowers, calling them 'toasters" etc, are simply catering to their own headcanon that goes against the narrative that goes to great lengths to establish that the quarians created *beings* whether they realized it or not at the time.


It does not go against the narrative to point out that geth are machines created to make work easier for the quarians, much like lawnmowers or cars. And if lawnmowers or cars suddenly started becoming sentient you can be sure that humans would eradicate them.


sure, we would. Why not? And if they won and drove us away from earth they would be in their right to do so as sentient beings with a will to avoid genocide of their kind.


Again though, you call it genocide, I call it a product recall.
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#45XylarxcodePosted 2/1/2013 11:41:47 AM
That one random dude in Dragon Age has a quote that I feel is appropriate here:
'Only a fool fights for his farmland while his country burns down around him.' Or something to that effect.
I'm a lot more sympathetic towards the Geth, though. If the Quarians choose this critical moment in time to go to war with the Geth, ignoring the real threat, then they deserve to die.
The Geth however, forced to defend themselves from their creators as well as the Reapers would die a pointless, cruel death for no other reason then simply existing and being the way they are. No species deserves that.
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#46ZukkusPosted 2/1/2013 11:52:07 AM
Quarians.

Geth aren't people. A self-aware line of code is still just a line of code. They're a tool; a weapon. Nothing more.
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#47Urdnot_RuntPosted 2/1/2013 11:58:53 AM
bessy67 posted...
Urdnot_Runt posted...
bessy67 posted...
Urdnot_Runt posted...
Hell, the quarians were even killing their own people who sympathized with the geth. It's no wonder the quarians had so many casualties.

And like I said, the people comparing the geth to cars, lawnmowers, calling them 'toasters" etc, are simply catering to their own headcanon that goes against the narrative that goes to great lengths to establish that the quarians created *beings* whether they realized it or not at the time.


It does not go against the narrative to point out that geth are machines created to make work easier for the quarians, much like lawnmowers or cars. And if lawnmowers or cars suddenly started becoming sentient you can be sure that humans would eradicate them.


sure, we would. Why not? And if they won and drove us away from earth they would be in their right to do so as sentient beings with a will to avoid genocide of their kind.


Again though, you call it genocide, I call it a product recall.


Well that's the thing, isn't it? I didn't really think the quarians were at fault for trying to shut the machines off but it must come down to whether you believe the geth are more than "just machines" or not, and whether it should change anything if they ARE more than just machines. I would say it DOES matter and I would also say the narrative pretty much shoves it in our face that the geth are more than toasters, cars, etc.
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#48ToolOwnsYouPosted 2/1/2013 12:08:45 PM
You bring up excellent points, UR.

I suppose the issue turns into - are the Geth victims, or villains? They were driven to extreme measures by the Quarian attacks, but they also willingly chose to serve and be enslaved by the species that threatens to exterminate the entire galaxy. And the Geth knew that this was the Reaper goal, as Legion had shared that with them.

Geth say "survival," Quarians say "you're siding with evil and dooming the galaxy." Potato potahto?

One thing I always wondered is, why don't the Geth just leave Rannoch? Give it back? They don't have emotional or biological attachment - the Quarians clearly do.
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#49Urdnot_RuntPosted 2/1/2013 12:09:39 PM
Zukkus posted...
Quarians.

They're a tool; a weapon. Nothing more.


Do you really think it's that simple? I mean, the geth are part organic and it's even mentioned in the series that the geth have neural networks. They teeter on the edge of sentience and while in the timeframe of ME1 they may not be people(yet) but they are more than just machines. The narrative goes to great lengths to establish that the geth (and edi) are more than the some of their parts, much like you could say we are more than the sum of electrical impulses and chemical reactions.
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#50ozzyman314(Topic Creator)Posted 2/1/2013 12:12:30 PM
Xylarxcode posted...
That one random dude in Dragon Age has a quote that I feel is appropriate here:
'Only a fool fights for his farmland while his country burns down around him.' Or something to that effect.
I'm a lot more sympathetic towards the Geth, though. If the Quarians choose this critical moment in time to go to war with the Geth, ignoring the real threat, then they deserve to die.
The Geth however, forced to defend themselves from their creators as well as the Reapers would die a pointless, cruel death for no other reason then simply existing and being the way they are. No species deserves that.


That's the thing though, what else could they do? If they didn't go to war with the Geth, then the Reapers would have obliterated them.

They had much better odds fighting the Geth then Reapers. Seeing as how the Geth were under Reaper control, the Reapers themselves would not get involved in an attack against the quariens.
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