Which ending would be considered most 'Paragon'?

#81edgecrusher02Posted 2/9/2013 11:07:17 PM
i guess id just rather put hope in trying something new than in things changing without it. call me a pessimist or even a cynic, but javik says it best when he describes how we are flawed. i think it shows considering how many people assumed originally that the catalyst MUST be lying and the fact that many still do despite what we have learned from the EC and the leviathan. if the catalyst really was lying and had some sinister purpose, it would not reveal itself to shepard, it would not allow for anything other than what it wants as a choice, and it would not have made it a point to harvest life for preservation. if someone thinks the catalyst is lying then they might as well just do nothing because by that logic all the choices would be whatever it wants. there is no reason to mistrust the catalyst at this point and based on what we have seen it has no reason to lie. this is why indoctrination is laughable at this point. and even from a story telling perspective, why would they release a bunch of new info that is in actuality just plain false as a way to appease the fan base? thats ridiculous. for the sake of the story, its better to take it for what it is. and in the case of synthesis i can see that i made the right choice as far as im concerned. if i had any doubt about it, i would not have chosen it. i dont choose it out of fear. like i said, id rather have hope in attempting change than hope in changing nothing. change is what moves things forward.
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religion is flawed because man is flawed
#82CycknessPosted 2/10/2013 12:42:09 AM(edited)
MurphysGhost posted...
1).

2).

3).

You'd really take Synthesis? I hope Marauder Shields gets ya... Anderson will do the right thing. :P


PS - As I suspect we're nearing the end of the line- enjoyable chat. You raise some interesting points. ;)


Yeah, we are definitely winding down (at least for today. heh heh heh) and it has been an interesting discussion. But, dude, you had to know I couldn't leave this last post alone. ^^

1). You say you'll "take your chances" because you (that is, Shepherd) won't be alive to see all of the generations you condemned to endless war.

You (and the rest of the people who argue against Synthesis) go on about the lack of choice that the rest of the galaxy had in merging with synthetics, but I don't remember Shepherd taking a consensus on who didn't want to make peace with the synthetics when he blew it all up.

For the record, "MAYBE" forced connection >>>>>> definite suffering and war.

2). You're missing my point here I think. I'm not saying crime should go unpunished. All I am saying is that different species are going to have different standards of right and wrong. I am not saying we should let aliens harvest us in favor of understanding them. I am saying that IF there is an opportunity to go a route a bit more thoughtful than "kill it with fire" than I am all for it. Synthesis was that route.

3). Now we get to the good stuff! Wall of text coming.

Do I think that the caveman would be appreciative of learning something that completely enhanced his quality of life? Of course. There is nothing wrong with a little help.

And its not like Synthesis is a cure-all for all of society's problem... just our pesky inclination to nearly wipe ourselves out with mass killings.

And dude, you are not getting it! You keep getting hung up on this "but what about his will?" deal while I am trying to get you to question WHY is it his will in the first place!

Our wills are based largely on what we know and what we don't know.... I may "will" to eat McDonalds but when my friend comes along and takes me to Five Guys my will changes. He didn't impose his will on me, he merely gave me another option and I found that option much better. I have eaten Five Guys and now understand that McDonalds is crap.

I propose to you that the Krogan, Turian or Whatever's will is to fight because they do not know a better way. Merging with synthetics gives them an option. A better way. That is all.... and while I imagine it doesn't force them to go that way, once you found an alternative to slaughtering your neighbor why wouldn't you take it?

And for your last paragraph, IF I am still left the same individual I always was and IF the best parts of me remain intact (and remember, the Synthesis ending implies that it does)... than I am totally cool with my genetic code being rewritten or whatever. Are we not more than our bodies?

And IF the only thing I lost was, again, my pesky tendency to create living robots, enslave them and then slaughter them for rebelling, losing family and friends in the process... where is the downside here again?

I imagine that you are right in saying people would be opposed to such a sudden merging but people are ALWAYS opposed to new things, even when (as in this case) there is no real negative.

Put THAT in your Reaper killing hand-cannon and shoot it. ;)
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PSN: FuriousGeorge3
"The ice man cometh, Sander Baby... The ice man ******* cometh"
#83SageOfLifePosted 2/10/2013 5:03:15 AM
Cyckness posted...
MurphysGhost posted...
1).

2).

3).

You'd really take Synthesis? I hope Marauder Shields gets ya... Anderson will do the right thing. :P


PS - As I suspect we're nearing the end of the line- enjoyable chat. You raise some interesting points. ;)


Yeah, we are definitely winding down (at least for today. heh heh heh) and it has been an interesting discussion. But, dude, you had to know I couldn't leave this last post alone. ^^

1). You say you'll "take your chances" because you (that is, Shepherd) won't be alive to see all of the generations you condemned to endless war.

You (and the rest of the people who argue against Synthesis) go on about the lack of choice that the rest of the galaxy had in merging with synthetics, but I don't remember Shepherd taking a consensus on who didn't want to make peace with the synthetics when he blew it all up.

For the record, "MAYBE" forced connection >>>>>> definite suffering and war.

2). You're missing my point here I think. I'm not saying crime should go unpunished. All I am saying is that different species are going to have different standards of right and wrong. I am not saying we should let aliens harvest us in favor of understanding them. I am saying that IF there is an opportunity to go a route a bit more thoughtful than "kill it with fire" than I am all for it. Synthesis was that route.

3). Now we get to the good stuff! Wall of text coming.

Do I think that the caveman would be appreciative of learning something that completely enhanced his quality of life? Of course. There is nothing wrong with a little help.

And its not like Synthesis is a cure-all for all of society's problem... just our pesky inclination to nearly wipe ourselves out with mass killings.

And dude, you are not getting it! You keep getting hung up on this "but what about his will?" deal while I am trying to get you to question WHY is it his will in the first place!

Our wills are based largely on what we know and what we don't know.... I may "will" to eat McDonalds but when my friend comes along and takes me to Five Guys my will changes. He didn't impose his will on me, he merely gave me another option and I found that option much better. I have eaten Five Guys and now understand that McDonalds is crap.

I propose to you that the Krogan, Turian or Whatever's will is to fight because they do not know a better way. Merging with synthetics gives them an option. A better way. That is all.... and while I imagine it doesn't force them to go that way, once you found an alternative to slaughtering your neighbor why wouldn't you take it?

And for your last paragraph, IF I am still left the same individual I always was and IF the best parts of me remain intact (and remember, the Synthesis ending implies that it does)... than I am totally cool with my genetic code being rewritten or whatever. Are we not more than our bodies?

And IF the only thing I lost was, again, my pesky tendency to create living robots, enslave them and then slaughter them for rebelling, losing family and friends in the process... where is the downside here again?

I imagine that you are right in saying people would be opposed to such a sudden merging but people are ALWAYS opposed to new things, even when (as in this case) there is no real negative.

Put THAT in your Reaper killing hand-cannon and shoot it. ;)


Your entire screed is based on the assumption that the Catalyst was right and can be trusted. What proof do you have of that?
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I am the lizard queen!
#84dsky9000Posted 2/10/2013 5:28:24 AM
Destroy the other 3 are shepard being fully indoctrinated.The whole chamber is a hallicination and the scenes after are what Shepard thinks will happen.
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Love your enemies,do good to those who hate,bless those who curse you,pray for those who abuse you.
(www.myspace.com/nightvayne for all my decks.)
#85BushidoEffect3Posted 2/10/2013 5:31:18 AM
TheFeshPince posted...
WatermelonFarts posted...
turning off your xbox


lol


lol modded.
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ESRB got this right
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#86AnonyMouseXPosted 2/10/2013 5:52:11 AM
Stonedwolfed posted...
AnonyMouseX posted...
Shepard didn't do anything against their will. When the entire galaxy rallied around the construction and deployment of a device they knew virtually nothing about, they consented to whatever outcome that device might yield.


No. They hoped it would save them by destroying the Reapers

Perhaps I should reiterate the "knew nothing about" part, like how they didn't know it would destroy the geth, relays, and Citadel. They didn't build a reaper-killing cannon, they built an exotic Prothean superweapon and all they had to go on was the flimsy belief that "the Protheans thought this could stop the reapers, so we'll try it."

All they hoped for is an end to this war, and that's what they got.
#87CycknessPosted 2/10/2013 8:00:18 AM
SageOfLife posted...
Your entire screed is based on the assumption that the Catalyst was right and can be trusted. What proof do you have of that?


edgecrusher02's last post pretty much said everything that needs to be said about the "Catalyst might be lying" fallacy.
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PSN: FuriousGeorge3
"The ice man cometh, Sander Baby... The ice man ******* cometh"
#88SageOfLifePosted 2/10/2013 8:39:40 AM
Cyckness posted...
SageOfLife posted...
Your entire screed is based on the assumption that the Catalyst was right and can be trusted. What proof do you have of that?


edgecrusher02's last post pretty much said everything that needs to be said about the "Catalyst might be lying" fallacy.


I didn't say he was lying.
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I am the lizard queen!
#89CycknessPosted 2/10/2013 8:47:01 AM
... I don't get it.

You just questioned if the Catalyst can be trusted, I said that argument has already been covered and now you're saying you never said the Catalyst was lying.

Than what exactly are you arguing?
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PSN: FuriousGeorge3
"The ice man cometh, Sander Baby... The ice man ******* cometh"
#90johnnycigar(Topic Creator)Posted 2/10/2013 8:50:38 AM
MurphysGhost posted...
johnnycigar posted...

I don't disagree with you. But, for devil's advocate, ventboy says organics will just end up creating more synthetics and the whole s***-show will end up happening again.

So, if Shep knows he's only buying time with a 'destroy' choice, would he do it? Or would he look at something else?



I'll choose the freedom to make mistakes every time.

As the good Monsieur Franklin said, those who sacrifice freedom to gain security deserve neither. It's highly probable that the Catalyst is correct. And yet, I'll take that chance.


I see your point. I would too. I'm just trying to think about what Paragon Shepard would do. Considering all that's happened in the trilogy. I'm not so sure he'd choose destroy in my view. But that's why we discuss it I guess.