Anti-aliasing

#21nintendoggerPosted 8/14/2011 9:25:25 AM
Nintendogs has AA.
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#22HollowNinja(Topic Creator)Posted 8/14/2011 10:44:45 AM
mrekli posted...
I don't understand the obsession with AA. It doesn't even look that nicer with a bit less jaggies. I never run it with any PC games I have. Also I wish you could turn it off on console games.

Console games typically run at sub-HD resolutions. Believe me, a typical PS3 or 360 game running without AA would look like utter crap. PC games running at the monitor's native resolution may or may not need AA. For anything higher than 720p, AA is basically a luxury. However, since console games rarely render at HD resolutions, and the majority run at less than 720p, and only two or three games run higher (on the PS3), AA is absolutely necessary on consoles.

Also, I still haven't seen an explanation for why OoT doesn't have anisotropic filtering.
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#23SkyCrackersPosted 8/14/2011 10:59:25 AM
HollowNinja posted...
Also, I still haven't seen an explanation for why OoT doesn't have anisotropic filtering.

Probably performance issues. OOT isn't the best looking 3DS game, but perhaps some scenes are complex enough that rendering them with AF would slow down the game, so Nintendo chose not to use it.
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#24HollowNinja(Topic Creator)Posted 8/14/2011 11:27:38 AM
SkyCrackers posted...
Probably performance issues. OOT isn't the best looking 3DS game, but perhaps some scenes are complex enough that rendering them with AF would slow down the game, so Nintendo chose not to use it.

If that's true, then either Grezzo's engine is incredibly poorly optimized, or the 3DS isn't as powerful as we thought it was.
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#25Icymane_ShadoPosted 8/14/2011 4:27:05 PM
SkyCrackers posted...
Icymane_Shado posted...
Applying AA to the two images separately wouldn't look right at all.

If you could give me a reason as to why this would be true, I'd be more inclined to believe you. Anti-aliasing is simply the removal of artifacts resulting from under-sampling. Images and videos taken by a real camera have none, or little of these artifacts in the first place. Every time you view a 3D image on your 3DS, you are essentially looking at an anti-aliased image.


Since you seem to think you know what you're talking about,

1) Explain how AA works on a given image.
2) Explain why a 3D image on the 3DS is essentially anti-aliased.

Also, you know undersampling is something used in anti-aliasing, right? (Though at this point we're not even referring to computer graphics anymore)
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#26SkyCrackersPosted 8/14/2011 8:06:23 PM
Icymane_Shado posted...
2) Explain why a 3D image on the 3DS is essentially anti-aliased.

Sorry, I mispoke. I meant photos. Although many photos have some degree of aliasing, you never get the *perfectly* defined stairstep edges you in most video games. This is because no cameras operate by sampling one tiny point in the center of each pixel; the light is always sampled from an area within the pixel(sampled may not be the correct term here, but you know what I'm saying). Thus, photos taken by the 3DS's cameras could be said to have anti-aliasing(in a way). And they look just fine to me(camera quality and resolution not considered, lol).

And undersampling is used in AA? Are you thinking of oversampling? When I said undersampling, I was referring to how games without AA basically sample from a single point in the center of a pixel(though things get a bit more complex when you add texture filtering to the equation), which is not enough to avoid artifacts.

If you want me to explain anti-aliasing, then here, I'll explain oversampling, otherwise known as FSAA. MSAA is too complex for me to want to write it all out. Oversampling works by rendering an image at a higher resolution than you want the final output to be. The image is then down-sampled by averaging, or any other method besides point-sampling.
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Best 2D Mario game: Mario vs. Donkey Kong.
#27SkyCrackersPosted 8/14/2011 8:08:25 PM
Just looked it up, and yeah, I did use "undersampling" incorrectly. I meant it as a sort of opposite to oversampling.
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Best 2D Mario game: Mario vs. Donkey Kong.
#28NinjaKitsunePosted 8/14/2011 8:41:12 PM

From: SkyCrackers | #008
Icymane_Shado posted...

From what I know about the 3DS, traditional AA is simply impossible in 3D mode.


This is not true. 2 anti-alisased images + 3D screen = 3D anti-aliased image.


I'm not entirely convinced those screens would combine without creating their own 3D artifacts. Minor differences in the AA results could stick out like a sore thumb in 3D.
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#29SkyCrackersPosted 8/14/2011 8:48:31 PM
Minor differences in the AA results? The two images are gonna have differences with or without AA. For instance, the aliasing "stairsteps" will never line up perfectly, either. I don't see how AA changes anything.
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Best 2D Mario game: Mario vs. Donkey Kong.
#30HollowNinja(Topic Creator)Posted 8/14/2011 8:49:05 PM
NinjaKitsune posted...
This is not true. 2 anti-alisased images + 3D screen = 3D anti-aliased image.
I'm not entirely convinced those screens would combine without creating their own 3D artifacts. Minor differences in the AA results could stick out like a sore thumb in 3D.


And I'm not convinced that there would be a problem with such an arrangement. PC games that support 3D support AA as well.
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