People complain about too much handholding in recent nintendo games

#41Delirious_BeardPosted 11/9/2012 4:37:09 PM
So are you saying that the Mega Man X games are bad for allowing expandable health and the ability to stock health refills in a platformer?


Main problem with this. Mega Man games are actually difficult. Super Paper Mario is not difficult. And the fact that it has an upgradeable health system makes the difficulty even more of a joke.

Yeah, we're all aware of this. If you could actually comprehend what you read, you would know how pointless it is to say this. The post I responded to specifically stated that having multiple hits in a platformer is the issue with SPM.


Go ahead and name me a 3D platformer without a health system that was actually difficult. I'll wait. Also thank you for not mentioning the other things I posted about SM64 that make it a far more difficult game than SPM.

There are tons of 2D platformers that do the same thing too. Mega Man, Zelda 2, Tomba, Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden and even Mario with the power ups and Sonic with the rings have health systems. Basically, the post I replied to said that platformers that let you take more than 3 hits are too easy. He just said that Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden are too easy because you can take more than 3 hits. He has problems with using healing items to refill "ridiculous volumes of health"? Mega Man? Metroidvanias? These are now bad games by the arbitrary standards he tries to hold SPM to.


Again, the problem with mentioning those games is that most of those games are actually difficult by design. And none of those games have a health system as broken as SPM's. Comparing SPM to actual 2D platformers isn't really a fair comparison, because SPM's gameplay is atrocious, while the core element of platformers is the gameplay.
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#42SMASHKING84Posted 11/9/2012 4:48:29 PM
i hate people who whine about it.
why do you insist on alienating new players? did you forget that you were one once?
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#43n00bsaib0tPosted 11/9/2012 4:48:55 PM
From: Delirious_Beard | #201
Main problem with this. Mega Man games are actually difficult. Super Paper Mario is not difficult. And the fact that it has an upgradeable health system makes the difficulty even more of a joke.

Mega Man games, yes. Mega Man X? No, they aren't.

Go ahead and name me a 3D platformer without a health system that was actually difficult. I'll wait.

I think you missed the point.

Also thank you for not mentioning the other things I posted about SM64 that make it a far more difficult game than SPM.

Why would I? I already established that they were baseless comments that had nothing to do with whether or not having lots of health a multiple ways to refill it make a platformer bad.

Again, the problem with mentioning those games is that most of those games are actually difficult by design.

You're still missing the point. Having a health bar, the ability to gain more health, and being able to stock refills to replenish it don't make a game bad by default and the guy I posted was just trying to pad a list.

And none of those games have a health system as broken as SPM's. Comparing SPM to actual 2D platformers isn't really a fair comparison, because SPM's gameplay is atrocious, while the core element of platformers is the gameplay.

Then quote the guy I responded to and tell him not to compare SPM to 2D platformers, because its right there in the post I quoted where he says SPM is too easy as a platformer because of the health bar. What part of this don't you get? Its the second time I've pointed it out.
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#44Delirious_BeardPosted 11/9/2012 5:10:44 PM
I don't understand how you can say having a really large health pool that also gets even larger DOESN'T impact difficulty. As I said, the game is already easy enough, the added health bars just make it even easier.

Either way, SPM isn't a very good game, and the difficulty is only one of the many problems it has.
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#45n00bsaib0tPosted 11/9/2012 5:37:33 PM
From: Delirious_Beard | #204
I don't understand how you can say having a really large health pool that also gets even larger DOESN'T impact difficulty.

I don't understand how you can think this after the number of times I've pointed out that the way the guy I quoted described it doesn't make the game bad. Seriously, read his post. Talking about having 10+ hits and other platformers not ever doing that? He had no idea what he was talking about. Why you're arguing with ME about HIM not having a clue is something I've yet to figure out.
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#46TerotrousPosted 11/9/2012 8:12:06 PM
n00bsaib0t posted...
In SM64 you have like 6 hits and there are multiple ways to refill your health. It that can still be a good game, I don't see this as a reason to knock SPM.

You have 8 health units, but nothing does only 1 damage, so you can generally take 3-4 hits. Also, you can fall to your death quite often, it's generally the main source of death.

Though really, the main reason Mario 64 gets a pass on difficulty is because it's open-ended. There are loads of shortcuts you can take to get stars faster, but with more risk, so you can tailor the difficulty to your needs. Galaxy does not have this and thus it has issues with being too easy, and when combined with the fact that it's also super repetitive you have another game that gets dull fast, but at least it's faster-paced than SPM.


n00bsaib0t posted...
So are you saying that the Mega Man X games are bad for allowing expandable health and the ability to stock health refills in a platformer?

It's much harder to avoid attacks in Mega Man X as the enemies move much faster and their attacks have more range and fill more of the screen, but it is true that when fully upgraded you can take so absurdly many hits in Mega Man X1 that it is pretty easy. However, due to the fact that the game is so fast-paced and controls so well it's still quite rewarding to play and this doesn't ruin it. Later Mega Man X games and the Zero / ZX series don't allow you to get quite so overpowered.


There are tons of 2D platformers that do the same thing too. Mega Man, Zelda 2, Tomba, Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden and even Mario with the power ups and Sonic with the rings have health systems. Basically, the post I replied to said that platformers that let you take more than 3 hits are too easy.

That's obviously an oversimplification, it depends on how easy it is to avoid those hits. SPM plays much like a standard (albeit slower) Mario game, where the ability to take 3 hits is always more than enough because the enemies are generally slow and not very threatening. In something like Castlevania (which is an action / platformer, btw), there are more enemies and they're more agressive, they take more hits to go down, and your method of attack is much less safe (you have to fight with short range melee attacks rather than simply landing on top of enemies). That's why your health doesn't go nearly as far, even if you can take 5-6 hits before dying.


Okay, here is the break down guys... Having lots of health and being able to stock health refills are not grounds for a game being bad.

Not by itself, but it's a factor that can easily result in a dull game if it's also very slow-paced and non-technical.
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