Why do some people judge games based off the merits of the previous entries?

#31MarsfordPosted 11/12/2012 12:29:28 PM
For the KH comparison, I would say Sticker Star (ignoring SPM) is very much the Chain of Memories of the series. Yeah, most KH fans like CoM the least apparently.
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#32halomonkey1_3_5Posted 11/12/2012 12:31:28 PM(edited)
From: esq393 | #029
You can never please people. If Sticker Star or RE5 remained the same, people would be complaining that no changes. Then if you change something, people will whine.


the difference is who you piss off. Changing the game that significantly pisses off the fans, the people who will buy the game regardless of how bad or good it looks. Keeping it the same pisses off more casual players(not casual in the core vs casual sense, but people who may have played a game in the series but don't consider themselves to be true "fans").

Guess who makes up the majority of your sales? The fans. Of course if you change a game there is a chance for new blood to be brought into the franchise(like RE did with RE4), so it's always risk vs reward, though you dont expect such drastic change when the games are well received and sell pretty well, though the inverse is true if a game is poorly received(fans get alienated by stagnation while casual players are less effected).
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#33TerotrousPosted 11/12/2012 12:35:12 PM
Marsford posted...
For the KH comparison, I would say Sticker Star (ignoring SPM) is very much the Chain of Memories of the series. Yeah, most KH fans like CoM the least apparently.

Chain of Memories is my favourite KH game. The combat is so much more strategic than the other games. Though I've heard BBS is somewhat similar and I haven't gotten to it yet.

But in any case, I enjoy them all despite the fact that the gameplay changes because for the most part the Disney worlds are the selling point.
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#34MarsfordPosted 11/12/2012 12:36:20 PM
Also, I think there's two other things that are major factors here.

1. If SS came out right after TTYD, I don't think the amount of complaining would compare at all to now. But since SPM came out, and then the series was finally promised to come back to its RPG roots, SS, although likely a great game, isn't what fans who fell in love with PM64 and TTYD had in mind.

2. If Paper Mario was CoD and came out a dozen times a generation, a change would be most welcomed. But there's been four installments in what, 10 years? TTYD is like my 4th favorite game of all time - when I heard a PM was coming to 3DS, I immediately knew I had to buy a 3DS. So SS isn't what I was expecting and wanting after waiting so long after TTYD.
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#35MarsfordPosted 11/12/2012 12:38:09 PM
Terotrous posted...
Marsford posted...
For the KH comparison, I would say Sticker Star (ignoring SPM) is very much the Chain of Memories of the series. Yeah, most KH fans like CoM the least apparently.

Chain of Memories is my favourite KH game. The combat is so much more strategic than the other games. Though I've heard BBS is somewhat similar and I haven't gotten to it yet.

But in any case, I enjoy them all despite the fact that the gameplay changes because for the most part the Disney worlds are the selling point.


That's exactly it. People who love PM mainly for the charm, atmosphere, dialogue, etc. are very much happy with SS, just like people who like KH mainly for plot, Disney characters, FF characters, music, etc.

90% of my love for PM is the battle system....so, yeah.
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#36TerotrousPosted 11/12/2012 12:43:49 PM(edited)
Marsford posted...
1. If SS came out right after TTYD, I don't think the amount of complaining would compare at all to now. But since SPM came out, and then the series was finally promised to come back to its RPG roots, SS, although likely a great game, isn't what fans who fell in love with PM64 and TTYD had in mind.

This may be a legitimate grievance with Nintendo but it doesn't make Sticker Star itself a bad game. I still want another F-Zero game, but I'm not going to mark down Mario Kart for not being F-Zero.


2. If Paper Mario was CoD and came out a dozen times a generation, a change would be most welcomed. But there's been four installments in what, 10 years? TTYD is like my 4th favorite game of all time - when I heard a PM was coming to 3DS, I immediately knew I had to buy a 3DS. So SS isn't what I was expecting and wanting after waiting so long after TTYD.

Again, this might be a valid point if Nintendo had in any way mislead people about Sticker Star's gameplay, but they really didn't. From the very first trailer (which was at E3 2011), the changes to the battle system were fairly clear, and every piece of information we've gotten since then has only made it more clear that it's pretty different from TTYD.


90% of my love for PM is the battle system....so, yeah.

Well then you also have the Mario and Luigi series, which is fairly similar from a gameplay standpoint. Yes, there's slight differences of course, but it's still got the same type of action-based system and the same basic character customization.
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#37SMASHKING84Posted 11/12/2012 12:40:58 PM
because games like smb3 not only did what smb did but exceeded it in every way.

it doesn't make since that we can't compare games to other games if we didn't do that then we couldn't say games like mom,super man 64,duke nukem forever,and the cdi zelda games in example sucked.
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#38Baha05Posted 11/12/2012 12:55:55 PM
SMASHKING84 posted...
because games like smb3 not only did what smb did but exceeded it in every way.

it doesn't make since that we can't compare games to other games if we didn't do that then we couldn't say games like mom,super man 64,duke nukem forever,and the cdi zelda games in example sucked.


Except to a degree if we compare it to other games and then say that "Oh this game isn't like the past games now it sucks" then we don't get anywhere in gaming.

There are reasons games like Super Man 64, Duke Nukem Forever, and Zelda CDI suck because they have too many major flaws in both the core gameplay, execution, and other things to contribute. If done right those games could have been pretty damn good.

Hell there have been pretty good examples of games changing up the gameplay and still turned out to be good games that people did not like.

Legend of Mana came to be, Chrono Cross exists, pretty much every Final Fatasy to an extent (while they kept the battle system they added or removed features to each title that made the system different from the last). Just because this differs from the standards of the first 2 games does not in any way make it a bad game and in no way should the title Paper Mario be removed because the creators felt the need to try something new.
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#39SMASHKING84Posted 11/12/2012 1:06:54 PM
"pm had two rpgs and two non rpgs” no it did not spm WAS an rpg just not turn based.

3 games that are rpgs means the series is an rpg series.
oh and btw people are claiming this game is part of the series because it has turn based battles.
that makes no sense if three games have the same element and the fourth removes it that's three games with the element.
if two games have an element the third removes it and the fourth brings it back that's three games with that element.

in other words turn based battles 3 games =3 games with rpg elements the difference is that the whole rpg thing was kept in tact EVEN in spm which was intentionally trying to be different.

put it this way if before spm came out[and pmss] there were several pm games that were like the first two would you still deny the first two established the standard??

"paper mario is about the art style” i see so paper mario 5 can be an fps? conversely pm 5 could be like the first two but without the art style it wouldn't be paper mario?[here i would agree it would be a mario rpg but certainly not PAPER mario]
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Jirachi is the best pokemon ppl who agree:3
unless i state otherwise everything i say is MY oppinon.
#40SmeIIyAfricanPosted 11/12/2012 1:07:15 PM
Why do some people make horrible threads?