Why do some people judge games based off the merits of the previous entries?

#41Northern_RosePosted 11/12/2012 1:10:17 PM
esq393 posted...
You can never please people. If Sticker Star or RE5 remained the same, people would be complaining that no changes. Then if you change something, people will whine.


Your missing the point. People are not complaining because they changed the game, they are upset because they didnt change the name so people expected more of the same and didnt get it. You change the name, you change peoples expectations.


The 2D and 3D Zeldas still have the same core game play, just evolved graphics, the core mechanics remain the same. What you do and how you do hasn't changed, just the view you do it in has.

For the record the only Mario game I have ever enjoyed is Super Mario Bros 2, and Zelda 2 is my fav Zelda, But I know I am one of the few most people do not enjoy these games. But I enjoyed Zelda 2 because to me it was like a Battle of Olympus 2 and not really Zelda, that and it was only the second game so trying new things was to be expected.

With Star Fox Adventures, there was already 2 Star Fox games that were shooters. They sold it by telling us we could get out of the ship. A lot of Star Fox fans back then were expecting ship battles and exploring on the ground as well, what they got was some lame Crash Bandicoot clone with the Star Fox name on the box.

As far as the RE games go, yes they have evolved over the years but complete changes to the core game play, no. you still running from Zombies, saving ammo, Killing Zombies that are in your way and solving the odd puzzle. Sure controls have changed (kids couldnt handle the old school controls) they fixed a few things, tweaked some other things and even tried something new every now and again. They didnt make RE6 and have the game play like Devil May Cry or Castlevania, because that would piss people off.


Think of peoples expectations this way:

When you go to McDonalds for dinner you expect to use the drive through or stand in line, tell a cashier what you want (she will get it wrong no matter how clearly you tell her). You expect your food in paper cups and waxed paper. You expect plastic knives and forks, salt and pepper in tiny paper pouches and no more contact with the employees. You expect the same sort of thing at any fast food place.

But when you go to dinner in a "nice" restaurant, Applebees, Tony Romas etc etc. You expect to be greeted at the door, shown to your seat. You expect to be told who your waiter will be and you expect him/her to show up shortly after you get comfortable to take your drink order. You expect your drinks in glassware. You expect time to look over a menu. You expect your waiter to take your order. You expect your food to be presentable, nicely laid out on the plate with a garnish etc etc. Salt and pepper are found in clean glass shakers. You expect your waiter to keep your table clean and your drinks full. You expect him to check in on you after a few bites to make sure the food is ok.

I'm pretty sure almost anyone would be pissed if they went to Tony Romas and stood in line to order, got a pre heated burger wrapped in waxed paper, your drink in a paper cup, salt and pepper in pouches and never saw another employee again.

The only difference is the name on the building, McDonalds and Tony Romas, just a simple name yet your expectations completely change.

People went into Tony Romas expecting Paper Mario and when it came, they got the McDonalds experience instead. (the name changed their expectations)
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#42n00bsaib0tPosted 11/12/2012 1:19:49 PM
From: Northern_Rose | #201
Sure controls have changed (kids couldnt handle the old school controls)

Actually, its because the controls were just stupid. CV is my favorite game in the series, and I've been playing them since RE1 Directors Cut came out, but I can still recognize a horrible idea when I see it. Learning how to walk shouldn't become a part time job just to play a game, walking should be something you can just do when you start the game.
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#43DanspurtPosted 11/12/2012 1:21:31 PM(edited)
Northern_Rose posted...
With Star Fox Adventures, there was already 2 Star Fox games that were shooters. They sold it by telling us we could get out of the ship. A lot of Star Fox fans back then were expecting ship battles and exploring on the ground as well, what they got was some lame Crash Bandicoot clone with the Star Fox name on the box.


'Scuse me?
Crash Bandicoot?

They're not even half similar. Zelda clone would have been more accurate.
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#44SMASHKING84Posted 11/12/2012 1:31:24 PM
the point is that the new games should build on the past game.
you do that by enhancing the good elements and maybe fixing the elements that didn't work then you add new ideas but not if they don't fit the series[you wouldn't make an ENTIRE book about space travel then call it the lord of the rings]

let me explain how this works i love mario party even more then mario platformers but i don't want mario to become mp.

if your not gonna build on the foundation set in the past for sequels then it really seems like your only using the branding to make money, other wise you would use your new ideas on a new ip

without building on the previous games we would never have had games like smb3,oot,sonic 3,pokemon gold,tales of symphonia,etc.

let me make this clear im not against change but i don't want changes that don't fit the series in fact every game i just listed proves there IS a middle ground you CAN add new fresh ground breaking ideas without ignoring your roots.

as far as you implying the only reason anyone likes older games more then newer games is nostalgia then explain this:
i didn't play ffvi until 2006 AFTER i played every ff expect 12-14 yet it's my favorite ff
i didn't play pm 64 until AFTER spm

tp is my favorite zelda and i played it after every zelda except ph,st,and ss
mp6 is my favorite mp and i didn't play it until after mp 1&5

tales of abyss is my favorite tales game but i played every tales game to hit north america since phantasia gba except vesperia[which i just got two months ago,but haven't finished yet] and graces

the only game i might only like because of nostalgia would be ffmq which was my very first rpg ever. it might be my 2nd favorite ff that came out before ff7 but if you factor imn every ff game i played it's only barely in my top 5 ff games [6𴗍29沠fmq]
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#45n00bsaib0tPosted 11/12/2012 1:34:48 PM
From: SMASHKING84 | #204
if your not gonna build on the foundation set in the past for sequels then it really seems like your only using the branding to make money, other wise you would use your new ideas on a new ip

So then Mario games should have never deviated from platforming. Mario Party, SMRPG, Paper Mario, Mario Kart, etc should have never existed.
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#46Baha05Posted 11/12/2012 1:37:15 PM
The thing is while it's nice for future games to build up from the past, the methods often get stale really fast. I mean hell people are already tired of NSMB when the first game came out.

As gamers and as developers we should be just limited to the same old same old with slightly new features. There should be some experimentation in formulas to give us something new. If people like it they like it, people hate it then they hate it, but judging them on past games and knocking them because of it or saying "This shouldn't be Resident Evil because of this and that" is really pushing it.

Hell people complain that Pokemon does nothing new when each installment has changed the competitive scene by a lot and with new move sets, some battle mechanics and what not they are still good series.

Paper Mario Sticker Star is a good game regardless of the past Paper Marios and regardless of it being it's own title.
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#47SMASHKING84Posted 11/12/2012 1:44:00 PM
n00bsaib0t posted...
From: SMASHKING84 | #204
if your not gonna build on the foundation set in the past for sequels then it really seems like your only using the branding to make money, other wise you would use your new ideas on a new ip

So then Mario games should have never deviated from platforming. Mario Party, SMRPG, Paper Mario, Mario Kart, etc should have never existed.


lrn2 read i said they shouldn't deviate sequels mp,pm,etc are separate series the have there own separate roots.

what i meant is simple instead of making games like pmss make that game part of it's own series then see how well it does without the pm branding

mp 9 would have flopped hard if it was called something else but because it has mario party in the title some people will buy it just because that.

but hey it's totally fine to make paper mario into an fps right? because series should never be defined by its gameplay.
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Jirachi is the best pokemon ppl who agree:3
unless i state otherwise everything i say is MY oppinon.
#48Northern_RosePosted 11/12/2012 1:49:48 PM
Terotrous posted...
Pokemon Conquest, that says loud and clear its going to be a Pokemon style SRPG. The word Conquest in its title implies this.

Much like how the term "sticker star" implies that stickers will be central to Paper Mario Sticker Star?


OMG! Think twice post once please. Stickers are generally used with paper, there is nothing there to suggest a difference. Good they used stickers, but took out the RPG aspect to do it, they could have used em in an RPG. No one had any doubts that stickers would be used and no one is upset with that.

Also no one would buy a Pokemon game with only 1 version and expect it to be like the games in the main series.

Mystery Dungeon Time / Darkness / Sky have multiple versions and aren't mainline.


Of course the Pokemon games titled Mystery Dungeon aren't going to be main line, thats why they named them differently so people would know that.

"Super" implies platformer now? I guess someone should phone up the Super R-Type guys and let them know that their game needs a rename.


Your just here to argue for the sake of arguing now, "Super" when taken out of context can mean just about anything. Again, Think twice post once please.
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#49n00bsaib0tPosted 11/12/2012 1:52:24 PM
From: SMASHKING84 | #207
lrn2 read i said they shouldn't deviate sequels mp,pm,etc are separate series the have there own separate roots.

But if there was no deviating in the first place we wouldn't be where we are today. If they saved every new idea for a new IP, we wouldn't even have Super Mario Bros, Mario would just be that dude from Donkey Kong that got his own arcade game running around sewers. If you think a Mario game should follow a formula just for having the word "Paper" in it, you're wrong. Its that simple.

what i meant is simple instead of making games like pmss make that game part of it's own series then see how well it does without the pm branding

Why when they already have the resources to do it in the Paper Mario graphic style? And thats all Paper Mario is, a graphic style. There are plenty of Mario RPG titles out there, and not all of them are Paper Mario, as such not all Paper Mario titles have to be RPGs.

mp 9 would have flopped hard if it was called something else but because it has mario party in the title some people will buy it just because that.

There are tons of games like that.

but hey it's totally fine to make paper mario into an fps right? because series should never be defined by its gameplay.

Its kind of hard to make a 2D game into a first person shooter. I would actually be impressed if they pulled it off.
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#50Northern_RosePosted 11/12/2012 1:56:05 PM
And yes Super Mario Bros 2 was different than the rest but again, notice how they never did that again.

Never? One could easily argue Sunshine is much akin to SMB2 for the 3D games. The gameplay is drastically changed to revolve around Fludd rather than the typical platforming.


Yes they made other games that were NOT part of the main series that had some similar game play elements.

Its name recognition, brand recognition. When you think Mac and cheese you think Kraft even if thats not what you got in your cupboard. When you think Soda you think Coke or Pepsi.

And when you think of Paper Mario, you think of the Paper style of the world. That's what separates it from the likes of Mario and Luigi or Super Mario RPG. And it's preserved in Sticker Star.


Actually I think Paper Mario as an RPG first, I always judge a game by its core game play first and its art style is much much further down the list. But again Most people were expecting another Paper Mario RPG, same game play same art style and they didnt get that.

The thing is, Paper Mario is a series where the games are tied together based on a shared concept rather than shared gameplay. Kingdom Hearts is another franchise that does this, its battle system changes in every game but the concept of the game, exploring worlds based on famous Disney and Square properties, remains unchanged in every game.


The game play only slightly changes in KH, there are little differences between each game to keep things fresh and new without changing the core mechanics of the game its self. The 1 exception is KH:CoM on GBA a system that couldnt handle something on the same level as the PS2 so of course changes were made. In 7 games only 1 of them used this style, all the rest used the same tried and true battle system as the first game with only slight changes to make each game feel new.

As for Paper Mario, you really think that after 3 games its just the art style alone that people expect? then why are so many people upset that its not an RPG?

Love the part about how games are "tied together based on a shared concept rather than shared gameplay" then you give an example of a series based on its game play.

Welcome to my ignore list your just here to argue, just look at the utter nonsense your saying.
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"I am bad and that's good. I will never be good and that's not bad. There is no one I would rather be, than me." ~ Bad-Anon