Why do some people judge games based off the merits of the previous entries?

#51TerotrousPosted 11/12/2012 1:59:53 PM
SMASHKING84 posted...
"pm had two rpgs and two non rpgs” no it did not spm WAS an rpg just not turn based.

It was a platformer with some RPG elements. Sticker Star also has RPG elements.


Northern_Rose posted...
Your missing the point. People are not complaining because they changed the game, they are upset because they didnt change the name so people expected more of the same and didnt get it. You change the name, you change peoples expectations.

They did change the name. Sticker Star is not called "Paper Mario 3" or anything like that. They retained the franchise name because the franchise refers to the paper artstyle and it's still in the game.


When you go to McDonalds for dinner...

This analogy is absurdly long for how irrelevant it is. A better comparison would be this:

You go to a restaurant and order the soup of the day. It's chicken noodle.
You go back to the same restaurant again and order the soup of the day and it's chicken noodle again.
You go back and order the soup of the day a third time, and this time it's cream of mushroom. You throw a hissy fit, yell "you call this soup?!" and storm out.


Note that cream of mushroom and chicken noodle are both types of soup, in the same way that Paper Mario TTYD and Sticker Star are both types of Paper Mario games.


SMASHKING84 posted...
the point is that the new games should build on the past game.
you do that by enhancing the good elements and maybe fixing the elements that didn't work

TTYD had almost no further room for improvement. The only thing you could really do is make a new one and make it longer. And I'm sure some people would like that, but that's not what we got this time around.
---
http://terosclassicgaming.blogspot.com/ - Watch me beat "GEN Alien Soldier"
http://www.backloggery.com/tero - My backloggery
#52SMASHKING84Posted 11/12/2012 2:02:23 PM
1.2 games is not enough for the foruma to get stale
2.even if it was there's no reason to permenatally abandon the original style
3.there are millions of ways they could have changed pm's gameplay without abandoning the series's roots for example this game could have replaced badges with stickers and left the rest alone and it still would feel fresh.
more examples:you could change star power attacks to elemental moves
you could increase how many partners mario could have in battle
you could could make it so in battles action comands are activated by the gyroscope and the same for paper moves on the feild

you could have player literally draw symbols to execute attacks
or hell even something as simple as chapters that play out differently from the rest of the game[one of the best ideas som had]

4.you might not be able to always make games unique without abandoning the core gameplay but that's no excuse to add elements that don't fit the series idc how many nsmb games there are there's no reason to throw in math puzzles as the main gimmick of the game[unless it a spin off]

you don't see star wars being set in the old west because "the formula has gotten stale“

they simply add new elements THAT FIT THE SERIES
---
Jirachi is the best pokemon ppl who agree:3
unless i state otherwise everything i say is MY oppinon.
#53RazieruPosted 11/12/2012 2:03:43 PM
Lord_Frood posted...
I will ignore your post if you use any words such as "fanboy," "troll," "endgame," etc; or post that comparison picture. Let's use original thoughts here.

Great; another feedback topic, but this one only means to accept feedback to the TC's liking. The tone of this topic is already set I see. Here we go.

Take Sticker Star or RE5 for example.

Or you could have just said "Hey what is up with the hate for these particular games?" in the title.

I haven't played SS yet, but it seems like a lot of people are ragging on it for being different than previous entries.

Their money and their own judgment entitles them to do so. So what?

Why not just look at it as its own game, not the successor to three other entries, one of which was vastly different from the other three anyway.

Why don't YOU? If someone were to tell you how to properly eat your favorite food for breakfast, you wouldn't like that either would you?

I didn't like RE5 at first because it just didn't feel like RE to me and that made me not enjoy it. The second I stopped judging it against RE4, I loved it as a totally different kind of entry (RE6, however, I don't like at all, for other reasons).

You =/= everyone else. Accept that fact, and you'll do fine. That's your way of enjoying games; others have their way.

It's just silly how people can't enjoy something as its own standalone title and have to compare against something it's not.

It's just sad that people still think they can fashion people to accept their way of thinking and liking what they like. People feel the way they want to about things and like stuff to their comfort and understanding. Get over it.
---
My swagger will X-splode you.
#54Northern_RosePosted 11/12/2012 2:06:55 PM
n00bsaib0t posted...
mp 9 would have flopped hard if it was called something else but because it has mario party in the title some people will buy it just because that.

There are tons of games like that.


Ya 9 games each with the same core mechanics behind them, good example, People expect Mario Party games to be multi player collections of mini games. and You know what? Every game Called Mario Party is just that.

but hey it's totally fine to make paper mario into an fps right? because series should never be defined by its gameplay.

Its kind of hard to make a 2D game into a first person shooter. I would actually be impressed if they pulled it off.


It can be done and was done on the PS2 I believe, a game called Fur Fighters: Viggo's Revenge.
---
"I am bad and that's good. I will never be good and that's not bad. There is no one I would rather be, than me." ~ Bad-Anon
#55Baha05Posted 11/12/2012 2:09:41 PM
SMASHKING84 posted...
1.2 games is not enough for the foruma to get stale
2.even if it was there's no reason to permenatally abandon the original style
3.there are millions of ways they could have changed pm's gameplay without abandoning the series's roots for example this game could have replaced badges with stickers and left the rest alone and it still would feel fresh.
more examples:you could change star power attacks to elemental moves
you could increase how many partners mario could have in battle
you could could make it so in battles action comands are activated by the gyroscope and the same for paper moves on the feild

you could have player literally draw symbols to execute attacks
or hell even something as simple as chapters that play out differently from the rest of the game[one of the best ideas som had]

4.you might not be able to always make games unique without abandoning the core gameplay but that's no excuse to add elements that don't fit the series idc how many nsmb games there are there's no reason to throw in math puzzles as the main gimmick of the game[unless it a spin off]

you don't see star wars being set in the old west because "the formula has gotten stale“

they simply add new elements THAT FIT THE SERIES


But the thing is the stickers do feel like they fit in this series, maybe the game could have taken another 6 months to refine it more but the stickers don't feel out of place. Amnd hell experimentation is not a bad thing, again just because YOU don't like the game does not mean this is a bad game.Besides the things you gave I can see just as much backlash to have to draw symbols to attack.

Actually I can see more backlash from it then anything.
---
"Not really just shows how stupid everyone in that universe is. I know instead of just snipping these terrorists lets risk an apocalypse durp"
#56vectorman5Posted 11/12/2012 2:18:02 PM
It is definitely appropriate to hold a game to the standards of any predesessors. As such, sequels are meant to improve or stagnate. If a sequel is too different from a predessesor, people will acknowledge the deviations as 'not improvements' and will register the game as an inferior product.

Example: Mario sunshine, Zelda wind waker and Majora's mask, Halo 4, and evidently sticker star.
---
If the Sega Master System was a speed bump to the NES, the Atari 7800 was a tire-staining squirrel.
#57Baha05Posted 11/12/2012 2:20:00 PM
vectorman5 posted...
It is definitely appropriate to hold a game to the standards of any predesessors. As such, sequels are meant to improve or stagnate. If a sequel is too different from a predessesor, people will acknowledge the deviations as 'not improvements' and will register the game as an inferior product.

Example: Mario sunshine, Zelda wind waker and Majora's mask, Halo 4, and evidently sticker star.


But then to a degree that shows a bias and that people will only accept improvements and just improvements and that any and all deviations on the original will always be inferior, which is just not the case.
---
"Not really just shows how stupid everyone in that universe is. I know instead of just snipping these terrorists lets risk an apocalypse durp"
#58TerotrousPosted 11/12/2012 2:26:33 PM(edited)
Anyway, pretty much all of the arguments in this topic can be boiled down as follows:

I wanted X
I got Y, which I had no reason to think was X
Therefore Y sucks because it's not X


It should be fairly obvious that this is poor reasoning.
---
http://terosclassicgaming.blogspot.com/ - Watch me beat "GEN Alien Soldier"
http://www.backloggery.com/tero - My backloggery
#59RazieruPosted 11/12/2012 2:27:54 PM
vectorman5 posted...
It is definitely appropriate to hold a game to the standards of any predesessors.

It is, while IMPROVING said standards. First meet them, then POLISH/CRITIQUE them. Don't go ten million steps backwards and hack or butcher them. This should be how a sequel is made.

As such, sequels are meant to improve or stagnate.

Meh, game devs are too busy experimenting and worrying about the noisy little crowd of kids breaking a nail with the predecessors elements and difficulty in general.

more hand holding & casual play > core gaming & trying something new and effective

If a sequel is too different from a predessesor, people will acknowledge the deviations as 'not improvements' and will register the game as an inferior product.

This should be used as critical input for those game devs to use in a positive way. And people should stop *****ing about how people acknowledge games.
---
My swagger will X-splode you.
#60wheresatariPosted 11/12/2012 2:28:51 PM
I feel the exact same way about FF XIII. This is a great game, though vastly different from the earlier entries. If you go in with an open mind, however, you'll find a very fun, sometimes challenging (which is more than can be said about the earlier entries), game.

I've noticed more and more people trying it a second time, for whatever reason, and coming back to the board and saying how they remember hating it but now it's pretty fun.

Idk get it though. FOr the most part the FF series is constantly changing and evolving. No two entries are exactly the same, so Idk why all the hate now.
---
I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no man comes to the Father except by Me.
-The Lord Jesus Christ. John 14 verse 6.