Why do some people judge games based off the merits of the previous entries?

#61Northern_RosePosted 11/12/2012 1:30:52 PM
Razieru posted...
It's just silly how people can't enjoy something as its own standalone title and have to compare against something it's not.


When you name something as part of a series it kinda makes it part of the series and stops becoming a stand alone title. Stand alone titles stand alone.

It's just sad that people still think they can fashion people to accept their way of thinking and liking what they like. People feel the way they want to about things and like stuff to their comfort and understanding. Get over it.


You do realizes the topic title starts with the word Why right? that means its a question. It also says some people not everyone. It was a simple question that people were answering why they judged some games off the merits of others.

Who is trying to force anyone to think a certain way? No one is forcing anyone to do anything. You say get over it, yet people were just answering why they personally judge a game based on past games. I think you need to get over it. Its a personal question so the answers will be different for each person. Whats to get over?

TC asked a simple question and for awhile people were discussing it. Sadly now its back to trash talking and starting petty off topic arguments just for the sake of fighting more.

Why do some people (most people here) have no idea what a personal opinion is and cant accept those of others?

Why cant we just say "this is why I judge new games on past games or "this is why I do not judge new games on past games"?

I dont get how answering a question is forcing your thoughts on someone else.
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#62SMASHKING84Posted 11/12/2012 1:35:27 PM
@baha05 i never said stickers didn't fit the series did i? they work like the consumable items you get in pm,ttyd,and spm so of course they fit the series.
if you had read my entire post i literally mentioned that if it was just the stickers that changed i would've been fine with it and i don't think anyone would call it a rehash

what doesn't fit the series is removing xp and multiple playable characters which BOTH were in all three pm games.

"this game was never announced as a return to the series roots”
during the game's first showing they showed a few screens and one of the screens showed this:the game was turn based and we had a beta partner in a chain chomp not only that but they did say this game was a return to the series roots.

there's evidence they said this but i cannot link to it as i use 3ds's browser but if you search through e3 2010/2011 videoes they do say this "this game will have something for both long time fans and new players”[paraphrasing]
which DOES at least imply they were trying to return to series roots. even if you discount that,the fact they made the game turn based proves without a doubt they WERE trying to go back to basics because they wouldn't have brought it back if they weren't...
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#63Baha05Posted 11/12/2012 1:37:34 PM
Razieru posted...
It is, while IMPROVING said standards. First meet them, then POLISH/CRITIQUE them. Don't go ten million steps backwards and hack or butcher them. This should be how a sequel is made.

Meh, game devs are too busy experimenting and worrying about the noisy little crowd of kids breaking a nail with the predecessors elements and difficulty in general.

more hand holding & casual play > core gaming & trying something new and effective

This should be used as critical input for those game devs to use in a positive way. And people should stop *****ing about how people acknowledge games.


You're logic is pretty flawed to a degree. While it can be agreed that they should improve and polish gameplay at some point you can only improve and polish it so much until it gets really stale and you are just scraping the bottom of the barrel to find things to add.

Because there are such things as sequels that have done thing, pretty sure the Megaman games have to an extent done this, CoD, Zelda, etc have kept core mechanics and added new things which shows and varies from game to game.

And again nothing is wrong with experimentation, the industry REVOLVES around the idea that "Hey let's try something different or a different spin on a game" We most lilkely would never have gotten Fallout 3 and NV if they had kept it in the old style.

Not to mention when you even think about it while we should all have our opinions there are, have, and always will be a few people that thin their opinion is "The best opinion out there and all others are inferior" and a lot of people do need to an extent drop the whole "This game isn't like the last game that makes it bad" because at that point saying that pretty much means you aren't going to be open minded about it.

Playing the game and giving a respectable critique about it though is a whole different thing which you'll rarely ever see one of these that highlight the good, the bad, and where they can improve on because people in gaming forums always seem to focus on nothing but the good or nothing but the bad.
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#64Baha05Posted 11/12/2012 1:45:46 PM
Northern_Rose posted...
Why do some people (most people here) have no idea what a personal opinion is and cant accept those of others?

Why cant we just say "this is why I judge new games on past games or "this is why I do not judge new games on past games"?

I dont get how answering a question is forcing your thoughts on someone else.


To answer that, for me it has to do with the tone of your opinion and what the exact opinion is. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion but to an extent there will always be those who have a more closed mind opinion, or ones that have an awful opinion, and yes those do exist.

And for the most part no one really knows how to judge or critique, like I've mentioned people focus on one or the other and never the middle, which is the best way to critique something is point out the pros and cons, even if this method is also flawed in a sense that the scale can tip either way.

And then you have the small number that if we are to take serious or not that never shuts up about it months after the fact, which those people tend to be kind of a mix of a hipster, goth, and hippie. You know the bad parts of those groups. The kind that are blinded 100% by nostalgia, the ones that hate any sort of major change, the ones that if you say you like the game they will call you a standardless gamer and you have bad tastes in games.

People like Endgame, Razieru, or AXKSION fit this if we take them seriously as gamers as they've done nothing but piss and moan that other people actually enjoy games they hate. I don't even want to know how many times AXKSION has told me I have bad tastes in games because I enjoy FPS games.
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"Not really just shows how stupid everyone in that universe is. I know instead of just snipping these terrorists lets risk an apocalypse durp"
#65TinyTim123Posted 11/12/2012 1:51:03 PM
Terotrous posted...
Anyway, pretty much all of the arguments in this topic can be boiled down as follows:

I wanted X
I got Y, which I had no reason to think was X
Therefore Y sucks because it's not X


It should be fairly obvious that this is poor reasoning.


I follow your reasoning. I see some faults.
How about this: In this case, X is a hamburger.
I got Y which is called a hamburger with lettuce. I therefore expect it to be a ground beef patty between to buns, and this time with the addition of lettuce.
Only instead of ground beef, it was ground ham, and therefore very different to what I expected. It is true in name, but not necessarily in spirit.
Or I expected a Sprite and got water, so naturally, as soon as I taste it, my first reaction is "What the hell is this?"
Water is still good and good for you, but when you expect Sprite, it tastes plain.

Or lastly, and most ridiculously, I buy a game called Street Fighter 91. I have come to know the street fighter franchise as a fighting game series. Since I didn't know the difference, it seems Street Fighter 91 is about beating rush hour traffic on the 91 freeway. What the hell is that all about? Or in the new Resident Evil game, you are a landlord trying to evict a Satan worshipping tenant. The next Dynasty Warriors game has you taking the role of someone from the 80's late night soap opera and conspiring against other members of your family. The next Call of Duty game has you taking the role of a Latter Day Saint, and doing missionary work to convert people to Mormanism.

Like I said, I have never played a Paper Mario game, so when my copy arrives, it will all be new to me, and I will be able to be critical of it without comparing it to previous installments. On the other hand, I have eaten a hamburger before. If I go to In 'n' Out, I know I will get a tasty burger, and any other formation of ground beef on a patty with a name of 'burger' is going to be compared to the ideal inside my own head, and I can't help it.
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#66n00bsaib0tPosted 11/12/2012 1:57:01 PM
From: Northern_Rose | #301
When you name something as part of a series it kinda makes it part of the series and stops becoming a stand alone title. Stand alone titles stand alone.

Stand alone titles stand alone by not following up a story. Does Sticker Star pick up where one of the previous games left off? Then its a stand alone game. Even then, a sequel can be totally different. Zelda 2 is a great game.
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#67Lord_Frood(Topic Creator)Posted 11/12/2012 1:57:53 PM
Terotrous posted...
Anyway, pretty much all of the arguments in this topic can be boiled down as follows:

I wanted X
I got Y, which I had no reason to think was X
Therefore Y sucks because it's not X


It should be fairly obvious that this is poor reasoning.


This is kind of what I was getting at. SS is obviously not trying to be one of its predecessors, so when it comes out, why say it's bad because of the fact that it's not like PM64 or TTYD?

Now I can totally understand if you're just disappointed that it's not like the older ones because that's what you wanted, but some people seem to be bashing on the game simply because it's not like the older stuff and then calling it bad because of it. It's a fine line, but it's there.
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#68SMASHKING84Posted 11/12/2012 2:38:56 PM
i think your missing the point nobody not even endgame would call this a bad game what were really saying is that just because it's a fun game doesn't excuse it from being only like pm games in the name.

it's like if i asked my dad to pick up a mountain dew and he gets me a hill billy hollar instead. the pop he got me maybe good but that's not what i asked for.

and i understand your postion because you think this is more like i ordered dr pepper and got diet dr pepper[the same general taste but not as good]

but it's not a case of a minor difference to anyone here that's complaining.
i want to be clear i'm buying pmss it will be at my house tomorrow,so you cannot say i'm not giving it a chance.

but even if i like the game alot it doesn't matter because it's not what i wanted.

and frankly if you take the attitude that "it's not what i wanted but who cares it's still fun” is a terrible attitude.
if you bought a wii u online but some jerk put a ps3 in the box you sitting there taking a whatever attitude nor only hurts you but that means that jerk can keep on doing it.

because even if someone gives you something you would like you shouldn't have to sit back and just take it if it's not what you wanted.


but hey i guess it would tottaly be fine if you bought a copy of earthbound online and in the box was a book called earthbound.
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Jirachi is the best pokemon ppl who agree:3
unless i state otherwise everything i say is MY oppinon.
#69Baha05Posted 11/12/2012 2:47:23 PM
SMASHKING84 posted...
i think your missing the point nobody not even endgame would call this a bad game what were really saying is that just because it's a fun game doesn't excuse it from being only like pm games in the name.


Well except Endgame did call it a bad game.
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"Not really just shows how stupid everyone in that universe is. I know instead of just snipping these terrorists lets risk an apocalypse durp"
#70n00bsaib0tPosted 11/12/2012 2:48:16 PM
From: SMASHKING84 | #308
it's like if i asked my dad to pick up a mountain dew and he gets me a hill billy hollar instead. the pop he got me maybe good but that's not what i asked for.

Its nothing like that, because PMSS doesn't advertise in any way that its 100% identical in game play to the previous games. Also your scenario here is more like asking for SMB3 and your dad buys you Sonic 3. If you ask for PMSS and get PMSS, you got EXACTLY what you asked for. Its not Nintendo's fault you didn't research before buying, and its not Nintendo's fault you're incapable of seeing that a game doesn't have to be 100% like the sequel to be good. Again, Zelda 2.

and i understand your postion because you think this is more like i ordered dr pepper and got diet dr pepper[the same general taste but not as good]

Again, its more like if you went out to buy PMSS and got PMSS. You aren't getting something different from what you went to get, you just don't like what it is. There is a HUGE difference. This isn't someone screwing up your order, you're getting exactly what you (or a parent) went to the store to buy.

but even if i like the game alot it doesn't matter because it's not what i wanted.

We knew it wasn't like PM64 and TTYD before it came out, so if you bought the game anyway thats on you. Again, this isn't someone screwing up your order this is you buying something DESPITE it not being what you want.

and frankly if you take the attitude that "it's not what i wanted but who cares it's still fun” is a terrible attitude.
if you bought a wii u online but some jerk put a ps3 in the box you sitting there taking a whatever attitude nor only hurts you but that means that jerk can keep on doing it.

Again, 100% different. This isn't someone screwing up your order. This isn't asking for a WiiU and getting a PS3, this is asking for PMSS and getting PMSS. Again, its all YOUR fault if you bought it anyway.

because even if someone gives you something you would like you shouldn't have to sit back and just take it if it's not what you wanted.


but hey i guess it would tottaly be fine if you bought a copy of earthbound online and in the box was a book called earthbound.

Again, this isn't someone screwing up your order. PMSS is PMSS, we knew this before it came out, if you bought it anyway thats all YOUR fault.
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