Sticker Star and New SMB 2 sure are products.

#21Vyers(Topic Creator)Posted 11/28/2012 9:48:57 PM
Denizen_Of_Dark posted...
Vyers posted...
And, in fact, I don't see why playing RPGs lends to knowing of quality stories in video games; it's pretty much accepted that the best stories in video games don't come from them, typically. Psychonauts, Full Throttle, Monkey Island, Sam & Max, Portal, Half-Life, The Walking Dead, Maniac Mansion.


The final fantasy series, chrono series, etc. Would like to have a word with u


Chrono Cross, while fantastic, had a lot of story problems. Far more than its predecessor, which says to me that the story writers have consistency issues. Even Chrono Trigger had some flaws; the story pacing wasn't great due to its dungeons that often go for long periods of time without story progress. Also, the writing was somewhat poor relative to how good the story was.

Don't even get me started on Final Fantasy. After VI, it became rather terrible, with one exception (IX). VII was far too basic a story considering how influential it's considered to storytelling in RPGs, while VIII was far too complex and needed to tone down in almost every way (despite that though I do enjoy VIII, and its story, somewhat). The Final Fantasy fanbase shows its colours when IX comes out. IX had great characters, a great world, fantastic art style, and it tried to do a story without the typical cast of characters one would expect in an RPG. The response, of course, was "I want "depth" like VIII had! I want "traditional" Final Fantasy like VII!" The FF franchise then abandoned any notion of innovation in storytelling and worldcrafting with X.
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#22Vyers(Topic Creator)Posted 11/28/2012 9:50:17 PM
so64 posted...
I have to question your implication that it is necessarily wrong for a company like Nintendo to aim for the largest common denominator when it comes to some of their series, in particular their Mario platform series. I mean NSMB series is arguably already focused on trying to introduce 2D Mario to the masses. So saying it is focused on the largest common denominator seems like a none argument simply because that is what the franchise is.

Now for Paper Mario SS, I agree it is a shame that Miyamoto thought it necessary to limit the developers the way he did. Yet, I feel that there may be some rationale behind his reasoning. One is that the Club Nintendo surveys showed that not that many people one appreciated the story of SPM.


Using Club Nintendo as the only factor in determining whether they should reduce an element prominent in every Mario RPG is a bad idea. There may be some rationale, but it's mostly Miyamoto taking whatever he can find to validate him pushing his dated and misguided ideals.
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#23Baha05Posted 11/28/2012 9:55:13 PM
Vyers posted...
The Final Fantasy fanbase shows its colours when IX comes out. IX had great characters, a great world, fantastic art style, and it tried to do a story without the typical cast of characters one would expect in an RPG. The response, of course, was "I want "depth" like VIII had! I want "traditional" Final Fantasy like VII!" The FF franchise then abandoned any notion of innovation in storytelling and worldcrafting with X.


THANK YOU. I did think FF IX did a great job at what it did, and hell the cast was pretty damn varied in each character and how they tied in with the story. But nopesince it's not FFVII it must be bad right?
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#24emagdnEPosted 11/28/2012 10:07:54 PM
The final fantasy series, chrono series, etc. Would like to have a word with u

thanks for ****ing proving him right

The Final Fantasy fanbase shows its colours when IX comes out. IX had great characters, a great world, fantastic art style, and it tried to do a story without the typical cast of characters one would expect in an RPG.

.....what alternate universe do you live in?

how did it do "a story without the typical cast of characters one would expect in an RPG" by using the same one dimensional archetypes that every jRPG uses?

and it has Square's trademark hackery writing! I mean, the final battle is against someone who comes out of nowhere!

.....eh, but then again, that could just be that even the hacks at Square acknowledged how lame a villian that whiney crossdresser is and deemed him unworthy of being the final villain

"if I can't have life, no one else can!" that's not the mentality of a villain, that's the mentality of a little girl

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#25brainfreeze10Posted 11/29/2012 1:11:31 PM
Vyers posted...
Definitely a great director. A lot of people really should remember that he was the lead director on Super Mario World, ALttP, and Link's Awakening, and assisted in the development of the Mario and Zelda franchises from the very beginning.


While I agree with the sentiment of this topic for the most part I'm not sure what makes you think Tezuka will be so fantastic. Most of the games on that list he worked on with Miyamoto. And as per your examples, Miyamoto was still creating brilliance back in the SNES days too so you can't really use that as defense of Tezuka still being a great choice. And in the past couple years? The "New" Super Mario Bros. series and Wii Music? Not giving me a ton of hope.

I'm optimistic, but extremely skeptical. Miyamoto isn't great, but it can still get a lot worse.
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#26MarsfordPosted 11/29/2012 1:23:54 PM
Yeah I generally agree with the OP.
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#27Vyers(Topic Creator)Posted 11/29/2012 1:41:20 PM
brainfreeze10 posted...
Vyers posted...
Definitely a great director. A lot of people really should remember that he was the lead director on Super Mario World, ALttP, and Link's Awakening, and assisted in the development of the Mario and Zelda franchises from the very beginning.


While I agree with the sentiment of this topic for the most part I'm not sure what makes you think Tezuka will be so fantastic. Most of the games on that list he worked on with Miyamoto. And as per your examples, Miyamoto was still creating brilliance back in the SNES days too so you can't really use that as defense of Tezuka still being a great choice. And in the past couple years? The "New" Super Mario Bros. series and Wii Music? Not giving me a ton of hope.

I'm optimistic, but extremely skeptical. Miyamoto isn't great, but it can still get a lot worse.


Brow also lead Link's Awakening. To me, that says that Tezuka made one of the freshest Zeldas, and brought the franchise with ALttP to a new plateau that the series had never been before.

And props Mars.
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#28surferguy7Posted 11/29/2012 4:00:26 PM
surferguy7 posted...
I care so much.

*Continues to enjoy Sticker Star*


Vyers posted...
Are fans such as surferguy7 so petty and defensive of their opinion that they cannot view any criticism of something they like without feeling angry? By the way, no one who legitimately doesn't care about something says "I care so much". Honestly, a person who says that is more likely to care than a person who says "I don't care" is likely to not care. The phrase is less commonly used to mean that, than it is to mean "I disapprove of this, but have no real rebuttal or criticism".


Or, get this, instead of jumping to radical conclusions over a sentence I posted, let's analyze my post shall we?

I never said "Hey bud, stop shoving your opinion down my throat, I can't handle it because I'm a blind fanboy." I said "I don't care whether or not the process of making this game was gimped by Miyamoto. I'm enjoying it, and will continue to enjoy it."

Did I insult you? No.
Yet you felt the burning desire to write a long-winded paragraph about a post that didn't mean much.
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#292wingedangelPosted 11/29/2012 4:06:45 PM
Series =/= Franchise

Mario is a franchise.
Paper Mario is a series.

Learn the difference people.
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