Is Metroid other M as good as SM: Sunshine?

#91VyersPosted 12/4/2012 4:06:10 AM
So what you're saying is that if Samus reached into her Power Suit, took a big ol' ****, and smeared it in her hair, that would be realistic because there are people in real life who have mental illnesses that lead to that?

Except those people have legitimate links and triggers that explain all of that. Their mind is damaged or affected in such a way that led them to putting dangerous human waste in their hair, which is considered abnormal and unacceptable in modern society. If Samus started to do that, I would question it because it is not set up in the story. As Samus, we never even get a hint that she has any mental illness that would cause that - even when we are controlling Samus in Fusion, where we get a look into her inner monologue.

Claiming that her acting in a way that contradicts her behaviour is not only bad writing - and an insult to all good writing - but an insult to mental illness. Mental illness doesn't happen due to a random number generator in your head. It's something that happens at birth, happens through abnormal mental development in your life, happens through physical or mental trauma. The closest thing this could come to is mental trauma, due to Ridley killing her parents. It falls apart when you realize that in each encounter with Ridley, save for Other M, it is the same. Samus recognizes that Ridley is a beast of an opponent, a dangerous opponent. She surely recognized him for his acts - nothing in the story suggests that only with Other M did she realize who she was truly facing - and yet she persevered. This so-called trigger that occurred when she fought Ridley in Other M would have triggered in one of those many battles. Do not trivialize mental illness, and do not use it as a copout excuse for Sakamoto's terrible writing in Other M.

To use your claim of 'real life people do irrational things" - let's look at the deus ex machina, the story concept where a no-way-out situation is solved by a plot device coming out of nowhere to save the day. You know what? I'm sure that someone was held at gunpoint somewhere in this world, and was saved by a random gust of wind, or the gunman having a stroke. In a story, is that a good plot twist? Is it a good plot twist that our protagonist survives not through his skill, or his allies, or a cleverly set up series of events, or an element that is consistently hinted at throughout the fiction, but rather, blind, dumb luck? Absolutely not. People in real life may survive through blind, dumb luck, but when it happens in a story, it's boring, it's contrived, it's lazy, and quite frankly, it's insulting to the reader. It means that the writers didn't care enough to give them quality. I don't care that real people act irrationally. It's bad writing for Samus to suddenly become irrational "just because". Samus not acting like herself proves that Sakamoto was being lazy, and wasn't even respecting Samus' character. I'll repeat: Every time "temporary insanity" must be evoked for a character's inconsistent writing or actions, it means that the writers ****ed up. It's not fair for them to be safe from criticism with bull**** excuses like that. It's not a valid defense because it entails that the concept of character inconsistencies in one's personality, as a flaw in a work of fiction, is not a valid one because it can be used on ANYONE. It's a nasty copout that, if allowed, rewards laziness and punishes creativity and quality. And just because Sakamoto wrote Super Metroid - and did not create Samus, FYI - doesn't mean that he is entitled to butcher her character in a lazy, arrogant display. And just because I don't want a bad Metroid story, it doesn't mean I want no story at all. Why are you such a black and white person? Why do you assume that if Sakamoto doesn't do it, a good writer couldn't?
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#92SMASHKING84Posted 12/4/2012 4:25:16 AM
You LITERALLY told me you liked samus because of the realisticness of her character.

If you want to claim realism is the reason you like her you have to take the good WITH the bad.

YOU ARGUED REALISM all i did was point out that you cannot EXPECT realism if you it's always postive that's not realistic at all.

not everything is puppy dogs and rainbows. look at this way:what if samus finds her real parents only to find out there jerks you expect her to be happy? no she would either get angry or sad.

who are you to say that samus shouldn't act sad just because she's not usally sad.

like i said she lost someone she loved that can easily drive someone crazy.

but you know why it really bothers you because this game isn't a clone of super metriod like fusion was.
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Jirachi is the best pokemon ppl who agree:3
unless i state otherwise everything i say is MY opinion.
#93JimmyMimpsonPosted 12/4/2012 4:27:37 AM
I dunno about Other M, but Sunshine is a really good game IMO.
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#94VyersPosted 12/4/2012 4:35:20 AM
It is not realistic for a STORY to not establish irrationality beforehand. If it does not establish good foundation for that irrationality to be within the character's design, then it is bad writing. That is not up for debate. I'm not even a good writer and I can tell you that it is among the basic tenants of writing. if that is the only argument you have, then Samus in Other M is a factually poor character. Indisputable fact right there.

SMASHKING, do you even read what people say? Logical emotions are what I want. Samus acted with emotions toward an event that she's experienced four times without having even remotely the same reaction. I mean, if you like terrible writing, go ahead. But do not expect people to have rock bottom standards. Forcing emotions into a character is infinitely worse than the character having no emotions at all, because if the emotions contradict how the character has acted in every single game they've appeared in bar one, then it damages the character quality.

Other M is a clone of something alright. It's a clone of ****. It ruins Samus' character. If Sakamoto didn't want Samus to be consistent with her character design that he himself created, then he is a bad person. He is a person who is willingly damaging the entire character of Samus for his own ego. Also, I'm just curious - what did Fusion take from Super Metroid? Was it Super's nonexistent narrative? Was it Super's extreme nonlinearity? Was it Super's controls? Was it Samus' physical appearance? Was it Samus' backstory? Was it the game's level design? Was it the bosses? Was it the final boss? Was it the primary antagonist? Was it the driving mission?

lolowait, Metroid Fusion actually receives most of its criticism for being so different from Super Metroid. Fusion is linear, Fusion has a consistent narrative, Fusion uses very different controls due to the limited number of buttons, Fusion uses a smaller, lighter Samus, Fusion describes an element of Samus' story not explored in any other Metroid game yet, Fusion used a very different level design and setting, Fusion's bosses are almost entirely new, Fusion's primary antagonist is entirely new, Fusion's final boss appeared only once before in a single game, and Samus' goal is entirely different.

That you said that Fusion is a clone of Super, tells me that you have never played either. Some Metroid fan.
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#95SMASHKING84Posted 12/4/2012 4:47:17 AM
i'm a bigger fan then you i don't mock a game in the series just because there are better games.

when has samus had someone die on her before the baby.
i was specifically adressing that.

and the fact you insist that samus didn't see ridley die tells me you think your a fool NOBODY would be shocked to see someone appear in front of them if they KNEW they were alive the fact she was surprised implies she at least thought ridley was dead. that's not brain surgery it's common freaking sense
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Jirachi is the best pokemon ppl who agree:3
unless i state otherwise everything i say is MY opinion.
#96VyersPosted 12/4/2012 4:59:06 AM
Her parents died. The Chozo died. The Chozo dying, considering her past with them, was basicallly her losing her family for a second time. There is your other trauma.

Also, a real fan is someone who praises a series for what it does well and doesn't let the series get away with its flaws. A real fan doesn't make up fanfiction stories to explain the inconsistencies that the designers have always ignored.

And it's shocking how many excuses the Other M fanboys can invent. She definitely witnesses Ridley's death in Metroid and Super Metroid. Ridley explodes. A logically sound person will always assume that a person or creature blowing up leads to death. There is no reason why Samuel would assume Ridley was alive. No reason at all.
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#97SMASHKING84Posted 12/4/2012 5:01:00 AM
Anyways back to original topic.
I honestly cannot tell you if other m is as good as sunshine because i never really cared for sunshine's difficulty.

I will tell you both are fun games,but i personally like other m a little more.

If your unsure you can always rent the game.
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Jirachi is the best pokemon ppl who agree:3
unless i state otherwise everything i say is MY opinion.
#98VyersPosted 12/4/2012 5:05:15 AM
Lol, way to absolutely drop out when I call you out for what an apologist you are. There is no excuse for her mental breakdown, and it harms the character.
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/Negative_Hippie
Blog: http://www.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=6123776 / YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThankTheBear
#99SMASHKING84Posted 12/4/2012 5:10:13 AM
So super metriod has absolutely no flaws?
and no i'm not making up fan fiction you CLEARLY see samus act irational in the game.

rationale people don't go from one personality to another.

A real fan might not LIKE flaws but a real fan isn't gonna act a game because of those flaws.

Considering the way you act about zelda you don't seem all that concerned about a series abandoning it's core ideals.

lord of the rings would never center an entire book on sailing so neither should zelda.

You want to explain why butchering zelda is ok?
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Jirachi is the best pokemon ppl who agree:3
unless i state otherwise everything i say is MY opinion.
#100SMASHKING84Posted 12/4/2012 5:11:59 AM
Vyers posted...
Lol, way to absolutely drop out when I call you out for what an apologist you are. There is no excuse for her mental breakdown, and it harms the character.


i wasn't dropping out i was adressing the original post BEFORE i responded to you.
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Jirachi is the best pokemon ppl who agree:3
unless i state otherwise everything i say is MY opinion.