Could the 3DS technically handle Xenoblade Chronicles?

#11Tzuba12Posted 12/27/2012 1:30:49 PM
r_m_8_8 posted...
How does Xenoblade compare to Monster Hunter Tri? Isn't that game pretty big too?


2 completely different games, not even comparable.

And Xenoblade is open-world. MH is mission based.
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#12MMaestroPosted 12/27/2012 1:50:20 PM
Lolno.
#13FireDragoon18Posted 12/27/2012 1:52:35 PM
I don't think so.

On Xenoblade, I saw an island from far away and decided I should go towards it.

I spent 10-15 minutes swimming, but I got there.
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#14LinkSSJ6Posted 12/27/2012 1:57:14 PM
r_m_8_8 posted...
How does Xenoblade compare to Monster Hunter Tri? Isn't that game pretty big too?


Compared to Xenoblade MH Tri's areas are a bunch of tiny rooms.
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#15Nickcool1996Posted 12/27/2012 2:04:48 PM
Yes, and it would probably look better too. Anyone have a MH Ultimate to MH Tri comparison?

On another note, I have to say how amazed I was at the scenery in that game. The character's faces though...they are horrible up close. Hopefully that would be fixed.
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#16Ambassador_KongPosted 12/27/2012 2:10:07 PM
Not a chance. The 3DS CPU would overheat and melt the system if it attempted to do something as bold as Xenoblade Chronicles.
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#17gransPosted 12/27/2012 4:55:05 PM
From: Ambassador_Kong | #016
Not a chance. The 3DS CPU would overheat and melt the system if it attempted to do something as bold as Xenoblade Chronicles.

Lolno.

From: Nickcool1996 | #015
Yes, and it would probably look better too. Anyone have a MH Ultimate to MH Tri comparison?

On another note, I have to say how amazed I was at the scenery in that game. The character's faces though...they are horrible up close. Hopefully that would be fixed.

The 3DS could probably add superior character shadows and even shader effects on the characters. That's what Tri G did when upgraded from the Wii. Also ran at twice the framerate of the Wii version as well (even in 3D). MH Tri on Wii is still very much up there with other technically impressive Wii games like Conduit 1&2, Xenoblade, Mario Galaxy 1&2, and The Last Story.

Monster Hunter and Xenoblade use different methods to render their worlds. MH has detailed areas that are loaded up during the level transitions (you see a loading screen between areas, though this has been shortened to such an extent in the 3DS port that they're almost nonexistent), but because it renders all of that area's detail at once, it renders them at a constant level of detail as a result of these loading screens.

Xenoblade renders its levels differently. Instead of using loading screens between areas, it uses LOD (level of detail) to render its world's geometry. LOD I guess you could say is a kind of forced perspective. Basically, when you're farther away from a piece of scenery and can't see the minute details from that distance, the game will swap out the model with one built with very low amounts of polygons and sometimes even lower resolutions textures. The lower detail isn't as noticeably due to your distance from the model. When you come closer to the model, the game switches out the model to one with greater amounts of polygons. A game can do this on the fly whenever you get closer or farther away from a 3D object. It does this to save it from having to render the entire game world and all the highest amounts of polygons at once. As a result of this method, you might notice certain bits of the scenery jitter or "pop" somewhat as you get closer or farther away from it. That is the game switching out models on the fly. LOD is a very common practice in even newer PC games. It allows a 3D model that would normally take up thousands or tens of thousands of polygons able to swap out to a version of the model that instead uses hundreds or perhaps even fewer polygons instead.

Here are a few examples of LOD and how the technique can save on polygon budgets-
http://www.dexsoft-games.com/models/images/fantasy/slum2/lod_stages.jpg
http://www.dexsoft-games.com/models/images/modern/street/lod_stages.jpg
http://www.dexsoft-games.com/models/images/sci-fi/scifi_buildings2/lod_stages.jpg
http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/31883/how-change-lod-in-geometry

Another similar graphical trick Xenoblade uses to cut down its graphical demands is pop-up. I'm sure many gamers are quite familiar with the term, it has been around for a long time (used particularly often at the beginning of the 3D gaming era but still used today). Characters and monsters that are more than about 20-30 feet away from your view don't appear at all, only popping into view when you get closer to them. Xenoblade also uses this for the vertically growing grass, it doesn't really render grass more than several dozen feet away from your character.
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NEVER judge a game you have not played.
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#18Ambassador_KongPosted 12/27/2012 6:01:28 PM
grans posted...
From: Ambassador_Kong | #016
Not a chance. The 3DS CPU would overheat and melt the system if it attempted to do something as bold as Xenoblade Chronicles.

Lolno.

From: Nickcool1996 | #015
Yes, and it would probably look better too. Anyone have a MH Ultimate to MH Tri comparison?

On another note, I have to say how amazed I was at the scenery in that game. The character's faces though...they are horrible up close. Hopefully that would be fixed.

The 3DS could probably add superior character shadows and even shader effects on the characters. That's what Tri G did when upgraded from the Wii. Also ran at twice the framerate of the Wii version as well (even in 3D). MH Tri on Wii is still very much up there with other technically impressive Wii games like Conduit 1&2, Xenoblade, Mario Galaxy 1&2, and The Last Story.

Monster Hunter and Xenoblade use different methods to render their worlds. MH has detailed areas that are loaded up during the level transitions (you see a loading screen between areas, though this has been shortened to such an extent in the 3DS port that they're almost nonexistent), but because it renders all of that area's detail at once, it renders them at a constant level of detail as a result of these loading screens.

Xenoblade renders its levels differently. Instead of using loading screens between areas, it uses LOD (level of detail) to render its world's geometry. LOD I guess you could say is a kind of forced perspective. Basically, when you're farther away from a piece of scenery and can't see the minute details from that distance, the game will swap out the model with one built with very low amounts of polygons and sometimes even lower resolutions textures. The lower detail isn't as noticeably due to your distance from the model. When you come closer to the model, the game switches out the model to one with greater amounts of polygons. A game can do this on the fly whenever you get closer or farther away from a 3D object. It does this to save it from having to render the entire game world and all the highest amounts of polygons at once. As a result of this method, you might notice certain bits of the scenery jitter or "pop" somewhat as you get closer or farther away from it. That is the game switching out models on the fly. LOD is a very common practice in even newer PC games. It allows a 3D model that would normally take up thousands or tens of thousands of polygons able to swap out to a version of the model that instead uses hundreds or perhaps even fewer polygons instead.

Here are a few examples of LOD and how the technique can save on polygon budgets-
http://www.dexsoft-games.com/models/images/fantasy/slum2/lod_stages.jpg
http://www.dexsoft-games.com/models/images/modern/street/lod_stages.jpg
http://www.dexsoft-games.com/models/images/sci-fi/scifi_buildings2/lod_stages.jpg
http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/31883/how-change-lod-in-geometry

Another similar graphical trick Xenoblade uses to cut down its graphical demands is pop-up. I'm sure many gamers are quite familiar with the term, it has been around for a long time (used particularly often at the beginning of the 3D gaming era but still used today). Characters and monsters that are more than about 20-30 feet away from your view don't appear at all, only popping into view when you get closer to them. Xenoblade also uses this for the vertically growing grass, it doesn't really render grass more than several dozen feet away from your character.


Really, you think the 3DS could manage huge outdoor areas like Xenoblade without melting down? Then why hasn't anyone made a game like it yet?

Answer: Because it isn't possible.
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First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. by Mahatma Gandhi.
#19gransPosted 12/27/2012 6:54:21 PM(edited)
From: Ambassador_Kong | #018
Really, you think the 3DS could manage huge outdoor areas like Xenoblade without melting down? Then why hasn't anyone made a game like it yet?

Answer: Because it isn't possible.

No. Answer: Because it hasn't been done and there's likely no desire to do it.

The 3DS could manage it, and I explained in detail why the Wii was able to manage such huge outdoor areas as well without melting down itself. The game manages to pull off such large scale environments by using creative ways to circumvent polygon limitations that would otherwise bring the Wii's hardware to its knees. It uses LOD to handle huge distant scenery, allowing distant objects to use deceptively tiny amounts of geometry. It also uses large and frequent amounts of pop-in whenever you're more than a few dozen feet away from characters, objects, grass, and monsters within the environments.

The game is obviously an impressive achievement on the Wii but it is not the only one. Other developers have also pushed the system as well, Mistwalker, High Voltage, Capcom, Nintendo, etc. Some of these developers have gone on to develop games for the 3DS. Capcom even ported arguably their best looking game from the Wii (and among the best looking Wii games overall) to the 3DS, visually improved AND running at twice the framerate of the original. Not to mention managing to scale down the engine that powers most of their current gen HD console games to the 3DS (something they have stated as unable to do on Wii despite their technical prowess with it and the Gamecube). High Voltage managed to port their Conduit engine to the 3DS intact as well and stated that the 3DS was more powerful than the Wii.

It hasn't been done on the 3DS because there's presently no desire to make such an open world game on the 3DS, the budget for 3DS games also tends to be much lower than console games of Xenoblade's style. It has quite literally nothing to do with power. And a big problem with your argument is that you seem to think the 3DS is somehow weaker hardware than the Wii. The 3DS has more memory (the type of which is also faster), a superior GPU, as well as a dual core CPU built with superior architecture over the Wii's Broadway CPU (the higher clock speed doesn't even give Wii an advantage here). The Wii certainly isn't as powerful as you try to make it seem, it was built on marginally better Gamecube technology after all.

Some people attempted to argue that the GBA was weaker than the SNES or Genesis for example. Common fuel for these arguments were the rather huge amounts of bad or inferior SNES and Sega Genesis ports that were dumped on it (often containing downgrades in visuals, sound, control, or just being horrible to play in general, Sonic Genesis is a good example). Not to mention the fairly few new games in general that took advantage of the GBA's hardware (most of those few arrived late in the GBA's life as well). A lack of games that take advantage of a system does not mean that system lacks the power to handle said games. Especially when the tech spec facts tell otherwise.
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NEVER judge a game you have not played.
-Granville
#20Starwars4JPosted 12/27/2012 7:36:29 PM
Ambassador_Kong posted...
Really, you think the 3DS could manage huge outdoor areas like Xenoblade without melting down? Then why hasn't anyone made a game like it yet?

Answer: Because it isn't possible.


It's not really a matter of what he thinks, it's a matter of the facts. We know for a fact that the 3DS is technically on par with the Wii, and even exceeds it in some areas.

In your small world, nothing new ever happens, does it? Since you seem to take the stance of "if it hasn't happened yet it never will". The same could have been said of the Wii before Xenoblade was made, after all.
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