Anyone think that LoZ PH and ST didn't feel like Zelda games?

#31zinformantPosted 1/4/2013 8:43:11 AM
The world isn't black and white. ST had exploration but cut out the middleman. It's like how folks pan the effectively empty sky in SS.
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#32Halladay32Posted 1/4/2013 10:53:10 AM
JurassicBond posted...
From: Halladay32 | #010
Plasma EXE posted...
(especially when you had to swim underwater to find those music notes in Skyward Sword).

Heh, I'm not the biggest Skyward Sword fan, but that was one of my favourite moments in the game for some reason. Much better than the escort and stealth missions in the volcano area, at least...


Really? I loved Skyward Sword, but I despised that part with a passion. One of the worst things I've ever had to do in a Zelda game.

I thought it was somewhat fun hunting all the Tadtones down. I imagine it might be less so on subsequent playthroughs though, since I'd already know where all of them are located. I liked the swimming in that game (motion controls in general were the one thing for which I really praise the game), so perhaps that's another part of the reason why I enjoyed that section.

Rai_Jin posted...
My favorite is TP, its overworld has a lot more to explore than OoT, the dungeons are a bit weaker though.

I feel the opposite. One thing I think TP did extremely well were its dungeons, whereas its overworld is expansive, sure, but it seems like there's nothing to do in it (I suppose the same could be said for OoT though, I'm not a huge fan of its overworld either)
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#33chestershadowPosted 1/4/2013 10:56:33 AM
They were pretty meh, still had a zelda feel to them, but they were both incredibly lacking.
#34Master_TothoPosted 1/6/2013 10:14:23 PM
I'm sorry, but if you liked ST you are wrong. It is a bastardization of the Zelda formula instead of innovating it. Recent Zelda games have been sucking the life force of LttP and OoT's poor corpse for far too long. They re use the ideas that made those few Zelda games in the middle great with less and less purpose. They throw in musical instruments and hook shot like items for the sake of tradition rather then actually making game elements and the items revolve around one another.

A Zelda at heart was kind of like a mid evil Metroid with dungeon based exploration. Thee world map is suppose to open up and old areas are suppose to expand an your methods of transportation grow. Look at the old games, they give you a hook shot that could hook into wood. You got as a player got to figure out what that meant. Now they give you a claw shot and tell you exactly what to aim for. You use it when and only when you are told. The ocarina and even the wind waker had a very open ended and dynamic use, giving you a wide array of songs with uses that weren't necessary but helpful (for the most part, to be fair some songs were indeed used to progress), then you look at the WORST THING EVER IN A VIDEO GAME the Piccolo from ST. A completely one dimensional musical instrument, there merely for the sake of tradition. It consisted of 2 note songs that were used ONLY when the developer told you to use them.

People talk of the "Zelda Cycle" but it doesn't exists. MM was an under appreciated game that came out after OoT, and it took people a while to realize why it was great, that's the extent of the Zelda cycle. It proved you can make changes to the Zelda formula, so these newer games have no excuse. People try to defend the straw-man arguments of why the newer Zelda games aren't as engaging. SS wasn't bad because of the controls or the revisiting of the 3 areas. ST isn't bad because of the controls, or even the fact it has trains for no reason, it's bad because it's a stale, 1 dimensional, boring, contrived, abortion of a game, ESPECIALLY a Zelda game.

TL;DR: ST does not feel like a Zelda game.
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XBL GT: Master Totho
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#35zinformantPosted 1/7/2013 4:55:10 AM
Master_Totho posted...
I'm sorry, but if you liked ST you are wrong. It is a bastardization of the Zelda formula instead of innovating it.


No.
A train for no reason? And here I wanted to take you seriously...unfortunately, you're in no position to define what Zelda is and what Zelda isn't so narrowly.
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Go to Gamestop, buy a Steam card, and use it to purchase Ys Origin. You won't be disappointed.
For more info: http://www.worldofys.com/yso/
#36Master_TothoPosted 1/7/2013 5:21:13 AM
zinformant posted...
Master_Totho posted...
I'm sorry, but if you liked ST you are wrong. It is a bastardization of the Zelda formula instead of innovating it.


No.
A train for no reason? And here I wanted to take you seriously...unfortunately, you're in no position to define what Zelda is and what Zelda isn't so narrowly.


There is NO reason to have a train. Not only does ghostly train tracks really not make for a compelling story, or very much sense (in fact, it actually makes a little less sense then an old woman not giving the Hero an extremely useful sword until hour 0 simply because...because she just didn't feel like it I guess, but I digress...) but the whole concept feels out of place and does not lend itself well to what Zelda has been about, exploration. ST simplifies the over world into an almost world map like scenario (like Super Mario RPG or Megaman or something of the like), Only you play a (boring) mini game to pick which actual location you want to go to next.

You don't like my opinion? That's fine, but at least I tell you why I know it's terrible; or at the very least un-Zelda like as this is what the topic is about. Why don't you tell us why you think ST isn't God's punishment for a sinful Earth, instead of quoting the 2 snarky comments I made just to underline how much I truly despise the worst game ever made and slapped with a Zelda title; and I have played them ALL, multiple time, so I think I actually do get an opinion on the subject, tyvm.
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XBL GT: Master Totho
SSFIV: Chun-li BB:CS: Jin
#37zinformantPosted 1/7/2013 5:32:35 AM
Fine, let's deconstruct this.
Master_Totho posted...
There is NO reason to have a train. Not only does ghostly train tracks really not make for a compelling story, or very much sense (in fact, it actually makes a little less sense then an old woman not giving the Hero an extremely useful sword until hour 0 simply because...because she just didn't feel like it I guess, but I digress...) but the whole concept feels out of place and does not lend itself well to what Zelda has been about, exploration.

I reject the assertion that ST had no or unfulfilling exploration and that, therefore, it isn't Zelda. Boating through an open ocean, riding a horse through a barren landscape, or flying through a clear sky are all analogous. The train limits your paths, but it's the same idea. That's the only negative to train travel. The purpose of flying through the sky or one of the other aforementioned exploration methods is to, ultimately, go somewhere. THe train, too, has the same purpose. You can take whatever path you feel like, but, in the end, you're going from A to B to explore B. Don't act as if the train travel didn't take you through unique environments, either; it did.

Master_Totho posted...
ST simplifies the over world into an almost world map like scenario (like Super Mario RPG or Megaman or something of the like), Only you play a (boring) mini game to pick which actual location you want to go to next.

I could say the same to the Great Sea games or Skyward Sword. Not liking the mode of transportation does not mean you can't also exclude others as 'boring minigames'. That's all the bird is. A boring minigame.

Master_Totho posted...
Why don't you tell us why you think ST isn't God's punishment for a sinful Earth, instead of quoting the 2 snarky comments I made just to underline how much I truly despise the worst game ever made and slapped with a Zelda title; and I have played them ALL, multiple time, so I think I actually do get an opinion on the subject, tyvm.

It's for that reason, really...you sound angry and like you already have your mind made up. Is it really worth my time to comment? We'll see, I suppose.

Reductionistically, all modes of exploration serve the same purpose. Picking on one simply because it was less fulfilling to you is grossly unfair. There is no facet of exploration in the other games that ST was devoid of. Remember, they don't have to look identical to be comparable.
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Go to Gamestop, buy a Steam card, and use it to purchase Ys Origin. You won't be disappointed.
For more info: http://www.worldofys.com/yso/
#38PaperDolphinPosted 1/7/2013 5:43:24 AM
No they didn't thanks to the awful controls.
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#39Master_TothoPosted 1/7/2013 5:54:23 AM
Oh look, it's that guy. The one who quotes someones argument and then breaks it down to defeat a point one by one. Good job mate! Your totally winning!

Now seeing as your most likely the last post, or at the least in the vicinity I wont bother making my post 3 times the size by doing the same. If anyone else actually cares then they can find your post and read it.

SS is bad, and the bland, empty over world is doing it no favors. It feels more Zelda like then this game, but it is most certainly a bad Zelda. TP isn't that great either, its over world was most certainly forgettable and empty, but they weer trying to give it an artificial epic feel. WW, sure, the sailing was kind of boring, WW had a lot to explore though which kind of made up for it. OoT may have had an empty overworld (and even MM to an extent), but at least you spent no more than a minute traversing it, and almost every other Zelda in assistance deals heavily with an interactive overworld full of places to delve into. ST most certainly did not have you traveling through unique environments, are you new to gaming? Oh look, a forest, oh look, a desert, oh look lava... Never seen that before!

I am angry, I'm angry people accept games like ST and let game producers know its OK to make crap and shove it down our fat faces cause we will still buy it! ST proves you can throw the name Zelda on a game, and people will STILL buy it and defend it on principal alone. When I here a new Zelda is coming out, I hope for a game that is in some way like LoZ, like LttP was or OoT... or WW or LA or MM or OoS/A or even MC. I want a Zelda with a purpose. ST purpose was to make a quick buck, and it is eveident in many of the game design choices they made.
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XBL GT: Master Totho
SSFIV: Chun-li BB:CS: Jin