I really want to enjoy Tales of the Abyss...

#191Delirious_BeardPosted 5/15/2013 11:32:37 PM
Right, but he had selfish intentions, but he didn't have BAD ones. Van did. And yet he's mentioned like once by Tear in that scene before Jade starts second-guessing Luke even though he is absolutely not one to talk.

And Jade and Anise still harbor a large amount of resentment in their first meetings after Luke wakes up, if I remember.
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#192TehAssasinPosted 5/15/2013 11:35:44 PM
I wasn't contented with Jade and Anise's initial response after team accepted Luke back either. They felt a little too harsh, but I can comprehend why they chose to be like that.
#193SuigintouEVPosted 5/15/2013 11:47:11 PM(edited)
As far as that is concerned, nothing in that conversation was really about blame-giving until Luke brought the issue of "whose fault is it up" and everyone just stayed silent. In fact that scene wasn't really so much an argument.

Delirious_Beard posted...
And Jade and Anise still harbor a large amount of resentment in their first meetings after Luke wakes up, if I remember.


Anise had never really interacted with Luke much up to that point aside from being really annoyed by his jerkish behavior. She was never originally Luke's friend and only saw him as a source of income. She was only there from Kaitzur to Baticul during the "Naive Luke" portions, where she was mostly just interested in his money, and she showed irritation during a lot of the "Jerk Ambassador Luke" portions even before the real event.

It took a long time for Jade to warm up to Luke, but little comments made by others about Jade's behaviour across the rest of the game had that much more meaning IE "You know Jade only scolds people he likes, right". It was kind of Jade's characterization in play when he was cold towards Luke.
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#194Delirious_BeardPosted 5/15/2013 11:59:14 PM
Jade's passive-aggressive remark does help spurn it a bit though. And given what he knows (and did), questioning Luke's decisions in hindsight is remarkably hypocritical of him. But still, why does basically no one wonder, "Hey, that Van guy...who's a national icon and commander of one of the most powerful forces in the word, why did he completely betray us and destroy an entire city and kill thousands?"

Instead, we're treated to exposition. I don't get it.

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#195SuigintouEVPosted 5/16/2013 12:11:02 AM(edited)
Delirious_Beard posted...
Jade's passive-aggressive remark does help spurn it a bit though. And given what he knows (and did), questioning Luke's decisions in hindsight is remarkably hypocritical of him. But still, why does basically no one wonder, "Hey, that Van guy...who's a national icon and commander of one of the most powerful forces in the word, why did he completely betray us and destroy an entire city and kill thousands?"

Instead, we're treated to exposition. I don't get it.


As far as Jade goes, the game never tried to imply he was a logical individual or not a hypocrite. It virtually suggested that he was to some degree autistic, despite his Genius IQ - this was mentioned by Jade's sister Nephry, and Jade himself too. I think people afraid to see hypocrites in fiction, and automatically call that bad writing. I personally disagree and think that hypocrisy is a very human trait.

Now as far as Van goes, he was discussed between Natalia, Jade, Ion, Guy, and Asch aboard the Tartarus as Luke peered in on them. This was soon after the scene you're thinking of, which was still during the immediate aftermath, they were still trying to make sense of where they were, what had happened, what they should do, etc.
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#196Super SlashPosted 5/16/2013 3:55:15 AM
When is it suggested that Jade is autistic?
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#197SuigintouEVPosted 5/16/2013 5:25:47 AM
Super Slash posted...
When is it suggested that Jade is autistic?


Autistic may or may not be too strong a word, but he is always going on about his inability to understand basic human emotions, including reacting to the death of others (which is a key parallel to Luke's growing understanding over the "meaning of birth") - part of what makes the eventually great friendship between the two such a strong point in the game. The Nebilim, Dr. Mambo, and and Contamination effect side quests are very good exposition in "who Jade is", especially the fact that he was the father of fomicry because he didn't have a moral comprehension of his actions. The similarities and key differences he recognized between himself and Luke led to his various attitudes towards Luke throughout the game - this was a guy known as Jade the Necromancer for very valid reasons by the way. The flashback scene of Jade and Dist as children showed a very stoic personality, something Nephry also alluded to when she talked about her replica doll. I can't diagnose autism specifically, but clearly Jade has underlying issues which form his characterization beneath the sarcastic joker of thr group.
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#198kilaudePosted 5/16/2013 6:34:37 AM
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who found this game had a boring story and characters. I still finished it thought.
#199wh0_kn0wsPosted 5/16/2013 8:10:04 AM(edited)
Atalalama posted...
Jade? Pretty much wanted to toss him into the Qliphoth.


lol

SuigintouEV posted...
Super Slash posted...
When is it suggested that Jade is autistic?


Autistic may or may not be too strong a word, but he is always going on about his inability to understand basic human emotions, including reacting to the death of others (which is a key parallel to Luke's growing understanding over the "meaning of birth") - part of what makes the eventually great friendship between the two such a strong point in the game.


it's almost is if jade was a sociopath that "learned" empathy somehow.
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#200notSFFPosted 5/16/2013 8:33:15 AM
Super Slash posted...
You know what really bugs me about the whole Anise thing?

She admits to pretty much being the direct cause of a lot of strife and conflict between the party...and despite this, they forgive her instantly. But Luke trusting Van, who was his father-figure, and whom he had no reason to distrust up to that point? Nope, can't forgive him. Let's treat him like an outcast for something he had no idea would happen, and no reason to believe would happen. Yet they forgive Anise immediately, and even tell her things like "You did what you had to do". Seriously, what the hell?


Anise spies on the party because the game's most evil villain will murder her parents if she doesn't.

Luke directly causes the destruction of one of the largest cities in the world, killing millions, and when the party understandably calls him on it, he has the nerve to try to pass the buck and deflect blame for the atrocity he just committed.

Doesn't really compare.
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