DKC Returns 3D- Polygons and other Visual Questions and Thoughts

#1gransPosted 5/16/2013 6:26:12 PM(edited)
Ok I don't usually do this but I wanted some more people to weigh in on this discussion. I wanted to create this topic because there's an ongoing thread on the DKC Returns 3D board about how the game stacks up visually compared to the Wii version.

Now to get this completely out of the way, yes the 3DS version doesn't look quite as good as the Wii version. The most obvious downgrade is that it runs at half the framerate of the Wii version (30fps vs Wii's 60), even in 2D mode. Shadows on the characters in boss cutscenes were also removed and some of the shine on certain objects (such as the boss' golden armor in Ruined Roost) were removed. Likely what you get when you outsource the port to a developer that didn't make the original game.

Other than that though I find the game looks intact from the Wii version. But in one thread there's a discussion claiming the game has lower polygon counts. And that's something i'm not seeing at all. I created this thread because I wanted to see what others thought on the matter here, the thread on those boards isn't very active and there are more opinions to be had here. You can read the thread to get a better idea of what we're talking about-
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/997843-donkey-kong-country-returns-3d/66193148

Now as I stated in the topic and this one, there are a few graphical downgrades to the 3DS port. But I cannot see any downgrades in the geometry at all. And this being with a direct side by side comparison in good enough quality to be able to notice whether some object is blockier and with fewer angles than another. The picture that sparked this debate was this one-
http://i.imgur.com/9ZtGc2S.jpg

Take note of the pile of stones in that comparison. The obvious difference I see is that it's recolored. An ugly palette swap that really makes it stand out in a bad way. Wii's blended nicely with the rest of the level because it was the same color, but here they palette swapped the textures to make the rocks a reddish brown with white shadows. Clashes rather badly. That much is clear. But polygon wise I wanted to ask other people's opinions because I can't see any difference in that regard but others are claiming there is a massive difference.

Another reason I think the difference is solely color based is because I was able to revert the 3DS version to be closer to the Wii version just by inverting the colors (and even making the shadows reappear) and just doing some edits to the contrast and gamma in irfanview-
http://imageshack.us/a/img829/1213/3dsnegative.jpg

So what do you guys think? Is this just a color change, or is the game using fewer polygons? If you can, post something to back up why you think what you think.
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NEVER judge a game you have not played.
-Granville
#2Abiz_Posted 5/16/2013 6:34:06 PM
3DS screen quality is coming into play. You can see the Wii version has better color(tv/monitor). 3DS version looks blurry compared to the Wii version. If you look at the stone pile to the right. It's not even close texture wise. Lighting probably plays another part in that. Those textures aren't even close though. I think it all comes down to resolution really.
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Interestingly enough, video game companies used to be able to make money without selling out like cheap prostitutes.-KaiserWarrior
#3ORANGE666Posted 5/16/2013 6:37:02 PM(edited)
You have some sick problem or something, you keep starting these stupid arguments with everyone

You have to be ****ed up in the head if you can't see that the rock in the Wii version looks significantly better than the one in the 3DS version.
#4grans(Topic Creator)Posted 5/16/2013 6:42:52 PM
From: Abiz_ | #002
3DS screen quality is coming into play. You can see the Wii version has better color(tv/monitor). 3DS version looks blurry compared to the Wii version. If you look at the stone pile to the right. It's not even close texture wise. Lighting probably plays another part in that. Those textures aren't even close though. I think it all comes down to resolution really.

It's weird though because while there are a few subtle brightness differences in the port, there's nothing as strangely drastic of a change as that rock pile. The textures look like they have the same design, but they're colored completely differently. Wii's are colored to match the level around it, a blue-green-gray color. But on 3DS, the rock pile is in complete contrast. It's recolored as a bright reddish-brown. The rest of the level shares the Wii version's color scheme almost exactly (barring very minor alterations to the brightness).

It's just very odd that they chose to change this particular item to stand out more. Perhaps for gameplay reasons to hint to players that it isn't a completely solid spot to be. Either way I think the coloration looks pretty bad, but I still don't see any difference in the polygons used. They clearly went out of their way to make it stand out more though for some reason. Even the shadows in the grooves have been recolored. They aren't removed, but they are white highlights now instead of black shadows. Further making the object stand out and look bad.

As I said, one can invert the 3DS object's colors in an imaging program and play around with the brightness/contrast/gamma/etc to get the object looking very much the same color wise. Inverting the colors restores the color of the rock as well as the shadows, and tinkering with the brightness, contrast and gamma can get it to look almost the same as the Wii version's rock pile.
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NEVER judge a game you have not played.
-Granville
#5Rurouni720Posted 5/16/2013 6:43:02 PM
ORANGE666 posted...
You have some sick problem or something, you keep starting these stupid arguments with everyone

You have to be ****ed up in the head if you can't see that the rock in the Wii version looks significantly better than the one in the 3DS version.


Don't even bother posting in a question topic if you are going to come off as an ass.
#6ORANGE666Posted 5/16/2013 6:46:50 PM
Rurouni720 posted...
ORANGE666 posted...
You have some sick problem or something, you keep starting these stupid arguments with everyone

You have to be ****ed up in the head if you can't see that the rock in the Wii version looks significantly better than the one in the 3DS version.


Don't even bother posting in a question topic if you are going to come off as an ass.


I already answered why the destructible rocks are different and why the indestructible rocks are the same in the Wii and 3DS version in the link he posted.

The 3DS can't handle having breaking physics on an object with textures like the unbreakable rocks. And those physics aren't even dynamic, they're set. I don't think the 3DS could handle those textures if calculation had to be done like at what angle the rock was hit and how fast
#7grans(Topic Creator)Posted 5/16/2013 6:47:00 PM
From: ORANGE666 | #003
You have some sick problem or something, you keep starting these stupid arguments with everyone

You have to be ****ed up in the head if you can't see that the rock in the Wii version looks significantly better than the one in the 3DS version.

Who is starting an argument now? Right, you as usual demondogbatspirit.

The 3DS version's rock looks awful and unquestionably worse than the Wii version. I have never stated anything but that. It's polygons are exactly the same however. That is not why it looks worse, it's because of the colors used.
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NEVER judge a game you have not played.
-Granville
#8Abiz_Posted 5/16/2013 6:52:56 PM(edited)
From: grans | #004
They aren't removed, but they are white highlights now instead of black shadows.

I made a topic about Zelda OOT because the 3D is pretty jarring with cross talk compared to other games I have played. Someone told me it was the darkness/black colors in the game. Maybe they recolored that stone for that reason. Does the stone come at the screen at any point? I never played the game. The game is the main reason I got a 3ds. As for the models/polygon count. I don't see anything different really.
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Interestingly enough, video game companies used to be able to make money without selling out like cheap prostitutes.-KaiserWarrior
#9SagadegoPosted 5/16/2013 6:53:00 PM
Rurouni720 posted...
ORANGE666 posted...
You have some sick problem or something, you keep starting these stupid arguments with everyone

You have to be ****ed up in the head if you can't see that the rock in the Wii version looks significantly better than the one in the 3DS version.


Don't even bother posting in a question topic if you are going to come off as an ass.


he is a ass.
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#10grans(Topic Creator)Posted 5/16/2013 7:05:41 PM(edited)
From: ORANGE666 | #006
I already answered why the destructible rocks are different and why the indestructible rocks are the same in the Wii and 3DS version in the link he posted.

The 3DS can't handle having breaking physics on an object with textures like the unbreakable rocks. And those physics aren't even dynamic, they're set. I don't think the 3DS could handle those textures if calculation had to be done like at what angle the rock was hit and how fast

And yet there's a hundred other objects in the game that break or move around that don't have texture or coloration changes, and are built with much greater amounts of polygons than that rock pile (and in levels that have a million other intensive things happening onscreen). Hell, usually large portions of the background and foreground scenery such as trees and other plants and objects will shake to DK ground pounding. You really have no idea what you're talking about.

From: Abiz_ | #008
From: grans | #004
They aren't removed, but they are white highlights now instead of black shadows.

I made a topic about Zelda OOT because the 3D is pretty jarring with cross talk compared to other games I have played. Someone told me it was the darkness/black colors in the game. Maybe they recolored that stone for that reason. Does the stone come at the screen at any point? I never played the game. The game is the main reason I got a 3ds.

No, the rock piles in that level (Tidal Terror IIRC) just fall down, kind of back behind the level foreground in fact. The waves and any enemies or collectible objects fly at the screen and you'll get a pop out effect from that, but the rocks don't. And the objects that do fly at the screen aren't really colored any different (not substantially anyways beyond perhaps a very slight change of brightness).

My guess is that it was Monster Games' attempt at making a potential dangerous spot more obvious. I don't like what they did at all to the rock pile as its new color scheme stands out like a sore thumb, but that's likely the reason.
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NEVER judge a game you have not played.
-Granville