Am I the only one that feels Senran Kagura Burst is sexist?

#201dolphinmagePosted 11/15/2013 6:01:23 PM
Lupin the 4th posted...
Buretsu posted...
jb08045 posted...
lol "the games has big boobs so it's wrong"


thats all that happening here lo


More like "Why care about sexism and women's issues when you can focus on a big set of boobies bouncing in your face?"


Because god forbid men admit we like breasts. We all have to behave like genderless non-entities to avoid offending the PC police instead of just admitting to our base desires. While I'm not remotely saying real women shouldn't be treated equally (of course they should) there is absolutely nothing wrong with a little sexual fantasizing now and then. It's in our nature. It's when one obssesses over the fantasy instead of engaging in any meaningful real life connections that it becomes an issue.

The fact that society shames men for being men is frankly disgusting.


So are you saying that straight men become genderless non-entities if they are not allowed to view women as sex objects every now and then?

Society is not shaming men for being men. Society is trying to get men to see women as more than just a sex object, but it has to overwrite centuries of that mentality being the norm.
#202Soniv4Ever10Posted 11/15/2013 6:33:30 PM(edited)
What I was about to reply to Vyers:
You must have missed the last 3 topics arguing the same thing and the one 300+ post topic that put this game in the spot light in the first place, it went past "acknowledging the possibility" of it a long time ago.

It's the same people arguing every time. It's been brought up multiple times that the game has more merits than just fan service, but those people keep being willfully ignorant about it anyway.

When they get called out on that they say something like "well if the game is so great they shouldn't have eliminated potential audiences by using those character designs" i.e I can't support my initial argument so now I'm side stepping.

What you just said:

dolphinmage posted...


Just b/c the characters get development, it does not change the fact that they are presented in a highly sexualized way. The trailers focus on their sexualization to the point where it is difficult to notice anything else. People keep using the argument that character development suddenly makes it okay for women to be presented like this. If the developers really wanted to create a story with developed female characters, it would have been better to not sexualize them. Otherwise that detail is hidden behind big boobs and clothing damage. I don't know if people remember this, but I recall there being issues with this sort of thing in 3rd Birthday too.


See, this is where the real issue comes to light. By the definition of both words the game is not sexist nor does it objectify the characters, the problem is people that personally don't like the sexual appeal aspect of it. If you don't like it/are offended by it/think it's tasteless/ whatever that's perfectly fine and I don't have any problem with that,that is something entirely subjective.

I do have a problem with people trying to make terrible arguments to call games sexist or whatever when they aren't. I have an even bigger problem when they start spouting off ignorant garbage like it's fact and then move on to generalizing people on top of that. People need to stop talking about games like this as if they're a massive problem that need to be fixed when it's only a problem for them personally, because they can't see the appeal in it or flat out don't like it.

If making female characters sexually appealing is so bad tell me what's wrong with it specifically, what negative effect does it have? Give me something that flat out proves it.

Should people really go out of their way to research games that present such a strong image in the first place? As I said, this game seems problematic with its content and when people defend it without offering specific examples of why it is not a problem, it just looks like they are being dismissive of those issues.


Yes they should. If you're going to be making bold claims about something you better have done your research and be well informed about it, unless you're trying to promote ignorance and baseless generalizations.You realize that logic is hardly any different from what people use to generalize and stereotype large groups of people right?


I don't see any problem with my statement

Of course you don't, which is why I said I wouldn't even bother.
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#203TheTitan99Posted 11/15/2013 6:22:22 PM
Women exist for 2 reasons:

1. To cook and clean.
2. To give birth.

That's it. They're weak, useless and they can't do anything right.


See? That was sexist. And you think this game is sexist because it exaggerates certain parts of their body. COME ON.
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#204tyc94Posted 11/15/2013 6:23:56 PM
blah, blah, blah no one cares
#205VenustraphobiaPosted 11/15/2013 6:36:44 PM
I'll just leave this here. This guy works at XSEED.

"That kind of thing is always subjective, since some people are more easily offended than others. Please take this part as my personal opinion! While it’s true that this is a game where girls who have big boobs have their clothes ripped off, here’s some extra things that others might not realize about Senran Kagura Burst in particular:
- In Senran Kagura Burst, the girls aren’t put into compromising sexual positions with men. In fact, sex isn’t even an issue in this game and there’s only one major male character. He’s a 40-year-old fully developed character who serves as the teacher of the girls from Hanzo Academy (the “good” shinobi), and he truly cares for the girls as a father figure of sorts. His story is actually pretty tear-worthy and the stories from his perspective are among my favorite parts of the game. Having been a fan of the series but mostly unaware of the presentation in Burst since I never had a Japanese 3DS, it was a relief to see so much care put into someone who obviously didn’t have jiggly butts on his chest.
- Minor male characters, save for one scene with an old man peeking into a bathhouse in the second game that comes into Burst, either treat the girls with complete respect or speak to them as equals because they’re shinobi or with distaste because they’ve had genuine conflicts with them in the past, and not in a lesser manner because they’re female. Being ‘called out’ as a female, or being ‘strong for a girl’ doesn’t even come into play in this game. They’re shinobi, and they’re treated as shinobi.
- You only fight girls in this game. It’s less ‘girl power versus girl power!’ and more “LET’S FIGHT WITH THE TRUE WAY OF THE SHINOBI, YO”, with each girl having a completely different fighting style (Asuka uses kodachi, Katsuragi uses kicks and is slower, Hikage is extreme agile, Mirai is 100% long distance and uses a tommy gun-disguised-as-an-umbrella among other things, etc.). There’s not a single instance of a man overpowering one of the girls and stripping her, violating her, beating her up/abusing her in a fetish-y manner, or anything really like that.
- Katsuragi of Hanzo Academy has the hobby of ‘sexually harrassing’ girls, but her personality is basically an energetic tomboy who likes flirting with girls in a teasing manner and copping a feel or two towards those she’s close with (which never really happens on screen at any time, I think there’s an incident or two involving girl talk with boob touching, but it’s among friends and is done off-screen). She would never do something non-consensual/that a girl wouldn’t want, and she’s extremely over-protective of her friends. In fact, one chapter has her fighting a girl (to her misunderstanding - don’t worry, this is a very early chapter!) because she thought she was harassing Asuka.
- The girls are not just breasts. They have fully developed pasts and personalities, to the point where if this game didn’t feature big-boobed girls the game wouldn’t really have a difference in quality. They laugh, they joke, they have girl talk, they have worries, fears, concerns. Speaking of which…"
#206dolphinmagePosted 11/15/2013 6:36:52 PM
Soniv4Ever10 posted...
If making female characters sexually appealing is so bad tell me what's wrong with it specifically, what negative effect does it have? Give me something that flat out proves it.


It's not conclusive, but here's some interesting reading for you. http://vgresearcher.wordpress.com/2013/07/26/self-objectification-by-embodying-sexualized-virtual-selves-fox-et-al-2013/
#207VenustraphobiaPosted 11/15/2013 6:37:26 PM
(Continuing on...)

- A lot the characters’ development is told through Visual Novel format from the perspective of the character. Not just spoken dialogue, but full descriptive novel form. There’s plenty of dialogue cutscenes and such, but if I recall correctly, the visual novel portions were written by a well-known author who took great care to express the happiness and fears of the girls + Kiriya (their male teacher). These are not “AND HEY, THERE’S THESE BOOBS, RIGHT? THIS IS A STORY ABOUT BOOBS. LET’S DESCRIBE THE BOOBS.”
- This game has a full story. While essentially a “good” shinobi versus “evil” shinobi story, the story has its serious moments, is heavily reliant on character development and does not fall back on the physical appearance of the girls to glaze over a plot. Again, if you take the boobs and clothes-tearing features away, there is still plenty of substance left over.
- Last thing about the boobs. Surprisingly, if you play the game, they feel more like an add-on as per the personal taste of the blatantly honest Takaki-san (the game’s Producer) than anything. A very constant add-on, but I can’t stress enough the fact that you’d still have a solid game if you took them out. I actually really like Takaki-san because he has no qualms about admitting he’s a giant pervert instead of skirting around the issue or trying to be sneaky with it. Even more, through our limited interaction, it’s clear he cares very much about the quality of his characters and his product. There was an ad I was making for SK, and he gave me lots of notes on how to position the girls so that Hanzo and Hebijo girls (rival schools) stood perfectly opposite of each other, as well as their heights and such. Not dirty poses, but very particular poses that represented a balance to the work. He’s fussy and wants it all to be perfect, but that’s the sign of someone that cares and is proud of their work.
- THE CLOTHES TEARING THING. So the idea in battle is that there’s normal mode, Frantic mode, and Shinobi Transformation. When you trigger a Shinobi Transformation, it does a Sailor Moon-esque transformation scene into their cooler shinobi outfits, which gives you raised stats. As you fight, you receive battle damage represented with brief cutscenes in battle by a ripping sound and a semi-provacative “Oh, no!” kind of pose which usually is represented by embarassment or a teary-eyed face/flushed cheeks. I didn’t personally find a problem with it as hell, I’d probably be embarrassed to if my clothes were getting ripped up in battle (I’ve had a similar clothing-ripping experience involving a tank top and a nail in front of a very busy restaurant, it’s hella embarrassing). Some might go, “Well, the creators obviously wanted that submissive look and they’re men, so it’s sexual,” but it’s not a sexual situation and I didn’t find it sexy, just a part of battle. I can’t say fact either way here- it’s purely personal interpretation.
Another gimmick is the dressing rooms, where you can move the camera up and down and the girls’ boobs move up and down with the camera, prompting a verbal response from the girls like, “Hey, stop that!” or something a bit more shy. The dressing room is where you can change into their various costumes and accessories that you unlock throughout the game- all of them pretty tame in nature. The most the girls are reduced to in the game are swimsuits. You don’t see lingerie in Burst.
#208VenustraphobiaPosted 11/15/2013 6:38:50 PM
(Continuing on..)

Senran Kagura Burst is light-hearted overall, campy in nature, but far from degrading, at least not the levels people make it out to be. If you see it from a surface perspective and if you read one or two of Takaki-san’s interviews, you might be under the impression that the game was fully created with no thought to women whatsoever and only to their breasts. I call a lot of bull**** on that one- it can be uncomfortable for some, sure, and I’d never force it down anyone’s throat, but to say that’s all it has and that it gives no regard to women is definitely not true. Sorry for such a long reply! I might have missed some things, but I wanted to be thorough with this response.
[On a completely different tune: If you’ve ever played Corpse Party, that game is far worse in sexually submissive content against girls than anything Senran Kagura Burst has to offer. I could list several examples of sexualization from Corpse Party. I adore Corpse Party as a series, like, I’m a huge fan, but interesting how the game gets a pass with virutally no uproar just because it’s a horror game with lots of violence while a much tamer game gets a lot of **** because not as many take the time to play it and see what it’s actually about.]
[Second note: The anime for Senran Kagura is 100000x more sexual than Burst. If you’ve seen it, you’re getting the wrong impression of the game.]

SOURCE: http://hatsuu.tumblr.com/post/57682499509/at-first-i-thought-senran-kagura-burst-seemed-really

There. That should answer anybody's questions about the representation of female characters in this game.
#209OoSubaruoOPosted 11/15/2013 6:39:29 PM
I applaud Soniv for fighting a losing battle. Now then, to 500!
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#210pikachupwnagePosted 11/15/2013 6:52:13 PM
Vyers posted...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Cleansing_(video_game)


WTF?
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