3 years ago#1
Kid Icarus: Uprising Gfaqs Board FAQs and Knowledge Compendium
v1.0 (last update: September 21, 2012) === please request sticky.
SPOILER WARNING: I have put spoiler tag on anything I think is major spoiler, but here’s another warning anyway.
*Any answer I am not 100% confident on will be mark w/ an asterisk. Take those information w/ a grant of salt. You can help everyone by verify them. You are also welcome to retest any information.
TABLE OF CONTENT
(ctrl+f is your friend)
Weapon Value Calculator:
(if you can’t read Japanese, google translate is your friend)
List of GameFAQs board players:
MC: Melee Combo
MDA: Melee Dash Attack
mMDA: manual Melee Dash Attack
SCF: Standing Cont. Fire
DCF: Dash Cont. Fire
FDCF: Forward Dash Cont. Fire
SDCF: Side Dash Cont. Fire
BDCF: Back Dash Cont. Fire
SCS: Standing Ch. Shot
DCS: Dash Ch. Shot
etc. Whoever translated the text has clearly thought about abbreviation :) (or maybe it’s just a lucky coincidence)
OD (or OvD) / SD / MD: Overall Defense / Shot Defense / Melee Defense
ED: Effect Duration
FHB: Full Health Boost
IPAB: In-Peril Attack Boost
IPAD: In-Peril AutoDodge
SR: Shot Range (not to be confuse w/ status resistance)
SH: Shot Homing
SC: Shot Cancellation
RS: Running Speed
WS: Walking Speed (personally i just refer to them as running and walking, but w/e)
EC: Energy Charge
TO: Trade Off
Libraries: Aries armor + Libra sponge
AA: Aries Armor
SA: Super Armor
SS: Slip Shot
(you don’t get a cookie for guessing why they are commonly abbreviated)
LvD: Light vs. Dark
FFA: Free For All
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(TC)3 years ago#2
Q: What is Kid Icarus: Uprising?
A: Kid Icarus: Uprising is a fast pace action game designed by Masahiro Sakurai, also known for the Kirby games and Super Smash Bros. series.
Story wise, it’s the sequel to the original Kid Icarus on the NES, though prior experience w/ the original series isn’t necessary to enjoy this game.
Its game play in single player is mainly divided between the flight portion that like on-rail shooter, e.g. Sin & Punishment or StarFox, and ground portion that’s like a third-person shooter.
It has a competitive multiplayer, based on the ground portion game play mechanic, for both local play and online. There are two main mode, free-for-all (deathmatch) and light vs dark (a variant on team deathmatch). Weapon obtained in single player can be used in multiplayer, and vise versa.
Q: Why should I get this game?
A: Rather than just tell you to get it, which you should, here are some reasons why:
1) It’s a game for hardcore gamer: you are rewarded for putting hours into this game, either in the form of more weapons for fusion, better weapon from fusion, or your own improvement in skill.
2) A huge variety of weapon varieties: and I don’t just mean there’s 108 weapons, which is a lot. Each of these can have different setup that works, as well as different powers you can pair them with. The most important part is that a lot of different setups will yield good result, rather than just having one or two OP setup that everyone is saying you should use.
3) Funny (and cheesy) dialogue: normally I don’t like cheesy dialogue either. But maybe it’s because they are delivered while I am also busy dodging shots and trying to kill enemy, so it really blends well w/ the fast action, couple of missed dialogue aside.
4) A LOT of “achievements”: if you are into the whole “gotta get’em all” thing.
Q: Playing this game is giving me a hand cramp, HELP!!!
A: Here’s a great image showing you how you SHOULD be holding your 3DS when playing this game:
basically try to get your right hand to help support the system as well.
Alternatively, you can use the stand, or place a pillow on your lap and rest the system on top of the pillow.
Q: Why doesn’t this game have twin-stick-control option with the Circle Pad Pro?
A: Shamelessly copy from Swagondile’s post in one of the topic:
"Adam Riley: If there had been more time for development, would you have liked to have further integrated the Circle Pad Pro into the game?
Sakurai-san: I presume you are referring to using the Circle Pad Pro for aiming. The length of the development time wasn’t the reason we weren’t able to do this.
From the early stages of development, Kid Icarus had been designed to get the maximum performance out of the Nintendo 3DS. We didn’t have enough left over processing and flexibility to allow the user to move the Circle Pad Pro independently. You could even say it is a miracle that we were even able to have it work in place of the other Circle Pad for the benefit of left handed players. I feel it is unfortunate how the Circle Pad Pro appearing towards the end of development ended up creating such a negative impression towards the controls. If we had both the processing power remaining and the time to implement it, then I think we would have. Still, as I’m sure you will agree if you are playing properly, someone using the Circle Pad would have no chance against someone using the high speed aiming on the Touch Screen. "
For full article, go here:
Q: How can I cheat in this game or get really good weapons with no effort other than someone gives them to me?
A: You can't. As of this post no one has publicly announced they found a way to hack 3DS.
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(edited by Primum_Mobile)
(TC)3 years ago#3
Q: What does offering hearts do?
A: It does nothing other than bringing the goddess closer. No really, it does absolutely nothing else. Sakurai, the game designer, said this himself.
Q: What is everything in the treasure hunt?
A: Check the cheats section:
Q: How many idols are there?
A: 402 obtainable in-game. There are more from scanning AR card, but they are not needed to unlock one of the treasure hunt achievement.
Q: My idol toss gives me 0% no matter how many eggs I add, even though I don’t have all the idols yet. HALP!!!
A: Most of the idols are unlocked in the idol toss as you complete each chapter.
Two of the idols require you to have at least 300 idols to unlock, but you are probably already there.
Seven of the idols require you to have collected all the weapons (just possess it at least once in your file at any given time, no need to have them all at the same time).
Finally, 2 idols can only come from the treasure hunt board (and AR card I think). They are
Of course, you can always just scan AR cards. Where? ask google.
Q: How do I delete a save file?
A: Hold L while in the file selection screen, then follow the on-screen instruction.
SOLOS aka single player
Q: Do you get the hearts back you bet in the fiend's cauldron when you beat a chapter?
A: No, you don't.
Q: Do you get better loot for getting a higher score?
A: No, it's only better the higher the intensity is.*
Q: What is crisis mode?
A: When you're almost dead in solo mode, you'll enter it. Every time you get hit during it, you have a chance of getting finished, and the stronger the attack, the more likely it is that you'll get finished. If you don't get finished for a while in crisis mode, you'll go back to normal and recover a very small amount of health. You can enter crisis mode 3 times per loading screen.*
Q: How many hearts do I lose when I die?
A: You lose enough to lower how many you'll still get to as if you'd done the entire chapter up to that point on the lower intensity level.
Q: How much does the intensity go down when I die?
A: Either 1.0 or the minimum of half of how much you are above 2.0 intensity, whichever is smaller. So if you're at 5.0 you'd go down to 4.0, but if you're at 2.5, you'd only go down to 2.2. Yes it rounds down what it puts you at afterwards. If you die on 2.0 or less the intensity doesn't change.
Q: Do you lose any loot when you die?
A: If you continue, then no, but if you retreat you'll only keep about half of it.
Q: What are all the score bonuses you can get at the end of levels?
A: No damage, full health, no death, cleared on each intensity, crisis averted, and defeated the boss using a melee dash attack.
Q: Do your weapon's stars and modifiers carry over onto other things like the Lightning Chariot and Great Sacred Treasure?
A: Yes, but they don't carry over to
Q: How many chapters are there?
Q: How long does this game take to beat?
A: Around 15-20 hours for a single playthrough, but you'll want to play the stages many times and the multiplayer has insane replay value so you can easily find yourself coming back for hundreds of hours of this game.
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(edited by Primum_Mobile)
(TC)3 years ago#4
Q: How do I get 100% on my save file profile?
A: Opened every chest in every level; visited every zodiac chamber and claimed its prize; got every single weapon at least once (don’t have to posses all the weapons at the same time); got at least one level of every powers.
However, there is actually
Q: Where are all the intensity gates?
A: Check the Gold Laurel FAQ:
Q: How do I narrowly dodge shots?
A: While flying, you have to not shoot for a couple seconds and then you'll go into a glide. Go really close to shots but don't get hit by them and you should get shots narrowly avoided.
Doing a spin dodge (done by moving the circle pad one direction then quickly flick it to the opposite direction) to reflect shot does not count as narrowly dodge shot.
Q: I can’t beat chapter (X) in higher intensity / intensity 9.0, HELP!!!
A: Learn to dodge better, memorize enemy patterns, use powers, and get better weapon. For weapon, try to 1) increase range attack damage output (higher range stars, use mod that increase shots damage); 2) put overall defense mod or shot defense mod on the weapon 3) get recovery effect mod on the weapon; in this order of preference. For power, Aries armor or super armor helps to reduce damage taken. Play dead is great for dealing w/ gauntlet. If you don’t move after activating play dead, you will remain invincible for a much much longer period of time. Instant death attack is also great for taking down enemies very quickly, but it doesn’t work on some enemies (bosses, clubber skull, reaper, mimicutie, lurchthorn, dohz, sio)*. If your weapon has recovery effect +3/4, powers like health recovery and Pisces heal can be good too.
Q: What's the most hearts you can acquire in a chapter?
A: Technically unlimited. You can keep dying and reobtaining the same hearts, and if it's on intensity 2.0, you don't lose any hearts when you die. There’s probably some huge cap like 999,999.
Q: What's the best way to farm weapons?
A: Play ch.
If you really don’t want to, ch. 5 is a distance 2nd best choice, or complete ch. 1 and just hope the shop gives you something good.
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(edited by Primum_Mobile)
(TC)3 years ago#5
Q: What's the best way to farm hearts?
A: Ch. 1, 3,
1st use: On a Toxiecap (toxic mushroom enemy) in front of a treasure chest. Kill it and quickly kill the Rare Treasurefish that spawns behind you for a load of hearts... Kill as many enemies as possible before it wears off...
2nd use: On the Boom Stomper (giant rock enemy) you face after getting Aether Ring... Try to kill all enemies there with HB active (giant rock is most important)...
3rd use: On another Toxiecap (toxic mushroom) at the beginning of the maze (take the jump pad). Kill it and surrounding enemies...
4th use: Within the maze is a Souflee, so use it on that and kill the nearby enemies... Also make sure to kill the Lurchthorn (the flying fish bone that has a body made of cannons) before HB runs out...
5th use: Finally use it on another Boom Stomper (giant rock enemy) in the final ambush before Cragalanche... Make sure to kill two Bladers (bird w/ blade wing) that spawn at the same time as the giant rock. (credit goes to ShadowSlash17)
Q: What makes weapons in the shop be on sale?
A: It's random.
Q: What refreshes the shop?
A: Clearing any chapter or clearing boss battles always refreshes it, and each together mode match has a chance to refresh it*.
Q: There’s a weapon I want to buy, but I don’t have enough hearts. How can I earn heart without refreshing the shop?
A: Grind up any weapon you don’t need.
The monoeye in the training ground also give hearts, just get a weapon w/ heart bonus +3, then use heart booster and instant death attack. Be warned that the monoeye will stop giving out hearts after 10 deaths. Incidentally, the monoeye dummy has exactly 510.7 HP.
You can also play ch.
Alternatively, just play on any level you like and die on the boss or something, then choose return to menu. As long as you survive the majority of the level, you should earn more hearts than you place in the cauldron, even after the heart decrease due to dying. WARNING: You MUST quit the level at the “I’m finished” screen. Choosing retreat in the pause menu will get you absolutely nothing, and you still lose the heart you bet in the cauldron.
Q: Why can't I beat
A: Destroy the green spheres on the walls first.
Q: A weapon/power dropped while I was in the hot spring. Does this happen to every hot spring?
A: Only the hot spring in ch.
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(TC)3 years ago#6
Q: What do Plutons steal from you?
A: A random weapon or power you've collected on your current run of the level. They can't steal from you inventory.
Q: Do I get to play as anyone other than Pit?
TOGETHERS aka multiplayer
Q: I don’t have any friend... that has 3DS. How do I do any of the “Nearby” Treasure Hunt Panel?
A: You can play “Nearby” matches with bots. Just start a match and select move out. The match will start with bots in place. Now you can continue to be “forever alone”.
Q: How do I get better rewards online?
A: You get better rewards the more points you get, the more human players are in the match, and the more of them that are registered friends. It also seems like you probably get more the further you are in singleplayer.
Q: What are all the possible multiplayer rewards?
A: Weapons, powers, hearts, and idols.
Q: How is the stage selected when I play “with anyone” in together mode?
A: It's random except that it's never the large or small arena.
Q: How much health does a character get online?
A: Some decimal between 221-222.
Q: How much health does an angel have in together mode?
A: roughly 600.
Q: What is each LvD team's lifebar set to in random online LvD matches?
Q: What modifiers do the angel's weapon's have in together mode?
A: None, but the angel does have increased health, speed, and attack power.
Q: Does an angel lose health when his teammates die?
A: Yes, but the angel cannot die from it. He loses more health the higher the value of a weapon his teammate had that died.
Q: I did over 222 damage to the Monoeye in the practice range, and yet my weapon still did not kill anyone in one hit, how is that possible?
A: Try practicing on the dummy before a together mode match starts. Some weapons will hit a different number of times or knock him into the air, thus causing less damage.
Q: What determines how many powers you get back when you respawn in together mode?
A: You get more back the higher value of a weapon you're using, and the further behind you are*. You don't get any fewer from being way ahead than if it is tied.
Q: How does the scoring work in together?
A: When a player is defeated, whoever delivered the killing blow gets score equal to 2/3 of the defeated’s weapon value, and whoever delivered the most damage to that defeated gets 1/3 of the defeated’s weapon value. When you are defeated or used spite, you lose 1/6 of your own weapon value. If you suicide, you lose 1/2 of your own weapon value. At the end of the match, you also get 10 extra point for every kill you made. Your score can never be negative at any given point*.
Q: Why do my attacks go through enemies?
or Q: Why do players walk outside of the stage?
or Q: Why didn't the match end when an angel was defeated?
or Q: Why did a player die before the match even started?
or Q: Why did it take so long for a player to respawn?
Q: Someone cheated and moved across the entire map almost instantly!?
A: People have not found a way to cheat and do such a thing as of this post. However, with brawler claws and running speed +4, full-health boost +6, and either the lightweight or super speed power, I'm sure people could make it look like they're cheating since they'd be able to move so fast. It also could have just been lag or the power Warp.
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(edited by Primum_Mobile)
(TC)3 years ago#7
Q: How do you tell who is a bot before the match starts?
A: Look at the check marks on both teams. Any slots that still do not show up as check marks at the very last possible moment before the battle starts generally get filled in with bots, but if it's laggy enough they can sometime be human players. If a player leaves during a game they are also replaced by a bot. You can't tell when this happens except that they act like a bot. Anyone you ever see with a name longer than 8 characters also has to be a bot since you can't use more than 8.
Q: What are all the bot names?
A: A list can be found here:
But there are also Japanese, Spanish, and presumably other language bot names which you can sometimes see online when playing with people in other countries. I have no complete list of these but I have seen some Spanish names such as TresLeches and Berenjena. TresLeches means, "Three milks" which is a popular thing in Mexico, so it does seem there are region-specific bot names, but I have noticed some bot names, such as Rainbow, do have an equivalent in each language.
Q: What is the bot difficult set to online?
A: Level 5.
Q: What are all those weird symbols in the Together menu?
A: Kill counts. Small green swords are 1, larger blue swords are 10, crossed swords are 100, purple stars are 1000, and orange gems are 10000. There might be more.
Q: Where can I find (insert weapon here)?
A: You can find any weapon you've unlocked in any level. Some levels are more likely to drop certain weapons. For a list, check the fusion FAQ:
Q: I got a ? weapon gem, what is it and what should I do with it?
A: It's a weapon gem for a weapon you haven't unlocked yet. Keep it until you unlock said weapon.
Q: What are the best modifiers?
A: Completely depends on the weapon and how you plan to use it. But generally good modifier strengthen that weapon’s strength.
Q: How many weapons can you carry?
A: 1000. Any new weapons obtained afterward will be grinded into hearts on the spot.
Q: Is there a way to “favorite” a weapon?
A: When you are viewing your weapon in the gear menu, you can tap on the faded star on the left side of the weapon to set it on “prefer”. Weapon set on “prefer” will always be on the top of your list, including in fusion menu, and will not appear in the weapon grinding menu.
Q: What's the best weapon?
A: That depends on your playstyle and different weapons are better on different levels and different weapons are better in together mode than in solo mode. For solo, my preferred weapons are standing cont. fire artillery claws or dash cont. fire beam claws, and for together, there are tons of good options.
Q: What weapons should I keep versus convert to hearts?
A: I recommend you keep ones that have only stars in one category, and any extremely low value ones, extremely high value ones, and ones that have modifiers you want. If you do well in battle with a weapon you'll also want to keep it.
Q: What does a weapon’s value indicate?
A: Each star and modifier level has a corresponding value attach to it. A weapon’s value is just the total value of all the stars and mod, plus 100.
Q: What's the highest value weapon you can obtain?
A: 342 is the highest confirmed, but they're extremely rare. 341, while still rare, is disproportionately more common.
Q: What's the lowest value weapon?
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(TC)3 years ago#8
Q: So is lower value a good thing?
A: In solo, it doesn’t matter. But in together, your team doesn't lose as much lifebar when you die in LvD if your weapon's value is lower. You also lose less points and give out less points when you are defeated. Although realistically speaking, in random LvD, the most important value to get below is 300, since if everyone in a LvD team has less than 300 value, the team is guarantee to have at least 4 death before an angel shows up.
Q: What does stars and modifiers do?
A: They are multiplier that affects the base stat of a weapon. The only exception is shot cancellation +1, which increases shot cancel value by 1 uniformly.
Q: How much does each star do?
A: Each half star increases all damage of its aspect by about 1/7 of its base value.
Q: How many stars can a weapon have?
A: It can have up to 6 ranged and up to 6 melee. It is possible to get a weapon that has 6 stars in both, although few weapons benefit much from this.
Q: How much do you get from each level of each mod?
A: Different ones are different amounts. Any that raise attack raise it by the same amount as if you had that many more stars. E.g. a 3 melee star weapon with melee combo +2 has as strong of melee combos as a 5-star melee weapon.
Shot cancellation is just a flat +1.
Most other mods do a percentage, and it increases relatively linearly with each level, although level 1 may give more and a negative modifier other than defense or health will not reduce a stat as much as a positive modifier increases it. Most modifiers you can figure at least +12.5% but no more than +~21% at level 1, and then figure you get about 12.5% to 17% or so for each level thereafter. By its maximum level, overall defense, health, shot defense, and melee defense allow you to take twice as much punishment in that category, and most other mods like shot range go up to +~50%.
On the other hand, a negative modifier doesn’t take off the same amount as its positive counterpart. Generally you lose less per negative level than you would have in a corresponding positive level.
Q: How much does each defense mod decrease damage by?
Q: What does full-health boost modifier do?
A: It increases your movement and attack damage when you have full health. It does not increase your maximum health.
Q: When do the in-peril type modifier activate?
A: When you have around 1/5 health for in-peril attack boost and when you're around 1/3 for in-peril autododge.
Q: What does evasion modifier do?
A: It increases the amount of invincibility frame a dodge gets.
Q: What does effect duration do?
A: It increase the amount of time a power will have effect on you. Thus, it has no effect on instantaneous power like spite or warp. It also does not increase the amount of time a status will affect an enemy.
Q: How can I duplicate weapons?
A: Get 2 3DSs and 1 copy of KI:U.
In the first 3DS, go to KI:U’s streetpass option and set up a gem.
Quit the game, then remove the game cartridge and put it in the second 3DS.
Load your profile, then go to streetpass option and set up a gem (you can setup the same gem or set a different one).
Now quit the game and put both 3DS in sleep mode.
Once the green light shows up indicating they have exchange streetpass information, start the game in one of the 3DS and claim your gem in that system.
Now place your cartridge in the other 3DS to claim the gem in the other system.
Two 3DSs can exchange streetpass information every 8 hours. But you can bypass that by formatting one of the 3DS. This will trick your system into thinking it’s bump into a new 3DS, thus allowing faster weapon gem duplication.
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(TC)3 years ago#9
Q: How many powers are there?
A: There are 61 different types of power, each with varying amount of level. The total number of powers, including each level, is 208.
Q: How many powers can I apply to myself at the same time?
A: You can have 3 powers applied to yourself at the same time. If you activate a 4th power, the 1st power you activated get override. Note that some powers cannot be active at the same time. For instance, you can only have one attack (red) power activated at the same time.
Q: When exactly do Bumblebee activate?
A: Any time you can dodge normally, i.e. when you are not dashing/ doing dash attacks.
Q: Is there a point to Celestial Firework? It doesn’t do a whole lot of damage, and doesn’t really set up for anything either.
A: Many offensive powers like celestial firework offer invincibility frame (roughly 1.5 seconds) when you activate them. If the fighter do a special animation to activate a power, it has activation invincibility frames. Celestial firework has fairly high number of uses for the board space it takes up, making it “a poor man’s brief invincibility”, as I like to call it.
Q: What can I get w/ Random/Random Attack?
A: Everything you can normally get in that (solo/together) mode. Thus, you can't instant death attack in together, nor can you get warp or spite in solo. The only exception is you can't get spite as an angel.
Q: Is there some hidden trick with some of the powers?
A: Quick Charge: aside from decreasing charge time, it also increase the number of volley for SCF before the reload pause.
Play Dead: if you don’t move after activating it, you’ll stay invincible and invisible for a much longer period of time.
Jump Glide/warp: if you use them while in Play Dead, you can move w/o deactivate Play Dead
Q: What's the best power?
A: There are no one “best” power. There are several really good powers though. To name a few:
for Solo: Aries/Super Armor, Heart Booster, Instant Death Attack, Tireless;
for Together: Libra Sponge, Aries/Super Armor, Trade Off, Energy Charge, Slip Shot, Homing Boost, Warp, Reflect Barrier, Bumblebee, etc..
Again, that is not an inclusive list, very few powers are consider worthless.
Q: What is daybreak?
A: A weapon that takes 3 parts to complete. A team must acquire one of each part to be able to use it. If an enemy has a part you can defeat him and he'll drop it. The player that picks up the last part gets to fire it. It can be fired more than once in a match if it goes on long enough.
Q: What does power up drop do?
A: It protects you from all attacks completely and it reflects any projectiles that hit the same as if they hit a reflect barrier.
Q: What does happy trigger do?
A: Lets you charge up shots very fast, and faster than quick charge does. It overrides quick charge if you have both at the same time.
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(edited by Primum_Mobile)
(TC)3 years ago#10
Q: I need fusion help!
A: First of all, check the fusion tip topics. They contain many useful information.
Here's how I do it. You can't make a perfect weapon out of 2 garbage weapons. Instead, with each fusion, try to either get rid of some of the mods you don't want, or get more mods you do want, so that your result weapon is always in some way better than the 2 weapons you start with, otherwise you just went backwards. If you have weapons with rare modifiers you really want them don't waste them, since it could take a very long time to get more of them. Some of the negative modifiers such as dash charge shot -2 on a melee only weapon seem to be extremely rare and valuable so keep them at almost any cost in fusion! You should also keep weapons that only have stars in one category separate, since as long as you fuse weapons with only stars in one category, the result will also only have stars in that category. Weapons that have stars in neither category can be fused with anything and still be fine, but be careful in that if you add even a half star to a weapon in the other category, it's hard to get it off. To remove all the stars in one category, you have to keep fusing a weapon with low value weapons until you get the value really low and then the stars in one category will usually come off after a few group 5 fuses, but you'll usually have to lose most of the mods you wanted on a weapon in doing this. It's not that hard to keep one mod you want such as melee combo +4 from a weapon you strip down into having no ranged stars, but it's very difficult to get keep high value mods when removing all the stars in one category.
Q: What's a fusion group?
A: Each fusion has one, and the higher the number, the more mods are likely to get carried over, and the lower the number, the more stars the result is likely to have.
Q: What fusion group is each fusion in?
A: Go here:
Q: How much value does each modifier add to a weapon?
A: Check the Weapon Fusion Mechanics Guide:
Here’s the link to the value calculator if you just want to know the total value:
Q: I want to try a chain of fusions without any consequence, Is there any way to not save?
A: Yes, just eject the game cartridge while you're still in the fusion screen. The games saves every time you go anywhere in the menu, and every time you see the little yellow arrow in the corner. It has not saved yet when you get to the I'm finished screen and it doesn't save no matter how many fusions you do as long as you don't exit the fusion menu.
Q: Does the order of fusion matter?
A: If you mean if weapon A x weapon B is the same as weapon B x weapon A, rarely, but it can be different.
Q: What determine the value of the fusion result?
A: the maximum value possible for any fusion is the average value (not including negative mod) of the two parent weapons plus some bonus. The exact bonus is as follows:
The game then tries to find a particular combinations of mods and stars that will abide by the fusion group rule (unknown to us right now) and match closely to the maximum value, we think...
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