The problem with Paper Mario: Sticker Star

#21MrGreen9Posted 11/16/2012 10:45:18 AM
This is perfect, everything you mentioned was exactly the reason I'm disappointed with this game. I hope Paper Mario 5 happens on Wii U in the next few years, and I hope it's done like the first two.
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#22Makoa123Posted 11/16/2012 10:50:44 AM
Counterpwnt posted...
Makoa123 posted...
People are comparing this game too much to the prequels. We get it you liked the first two games. Yes we get it, this game could have been another one of those games. But it's not, so stop reminiscing about old games and move on. I think Sticker Star is good and deserves to go on the shelf with the other good Mario games.


What I'm saying is that what makes SMRPG/the Paper Mario games stand out at all from the other Mario games is that they are story-centric traditionally, not gameplay-centric.

This game is not story-centric. Would you complain if you ordered a hot dog at a restaurant and got a hamburger? It's as simple as that. This is a board for this game and we are discussing it.

Your phrase "but it's not" is exactly what's being discussed here. And this isn't for the people who don't have a problem. This thread is here to pinpoint what the problem is. If you have no problem, then you can't add anything. Unless you want to argue that Sticker Star IS story-centric—to which I say, best of luck.


Ok fine, if Sticker Star doesn't stand out because it's story is lackluster, then it stands out for its innovative, creative, and original battle system. In that regard it shines far more brightly than any other generic RPG.

A game is nothing like a hot dog. You don't consume games like you do food. While you can buy a hot dog from the same place every day and know exactly what to expect, you can't buy a game knowing exactly what you're going to get. In Sticker Star's case, you had an educated guess of what to expect before buying it since it had prequels, but that was still only a guess. It doesn't matter what we're talking about; if you set your expectations too high, don't be surprised when you find yourself disappointed.

While there is merit in saying a game is bad because its prequels were better, I find that argument really weak. If my 1st son became a very successful businessman, that doesn't make my 2nd son bad, a failure, nor a disappointment.
As a standalone title, Sticker Star is very welcoming. I'm glad Nintendo continues to experiment with their consoles and their game design. Now if only they'd do that with the NSMB series....
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#23KromagnumPosted 11/16/2012 11:04:14 AM
I like this game, but I liked SPM more. I liked the partners, and I really liked the 2d/3d flipping.

My main gripe with this game is that after a point, battles seem pointless. I'm only in world 2, and I already find myself skipping most enemies in order to save my stickers for the boss.
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#24Hirokey123Posted 11/16/2012 11:34:57 AM
Kromagnum posted...
I like this game, but I liked SPM more. I liked the partners, and I really liked the 2d/3d flipping.

My main gripe with this game is that after a point, battles seem pointless. I'm only in world 2, and I already find myself skipping most enemies in order to save my stickers for the boss.


Don't do that, don't even bother hoarding stickers the game will give you so many everywhere it's just a waste of time to hoard.

What they expect you to do is go full blast, you're reward for going full blast and annihilating the enemies skillfully in one turn. Beyond that your coin bonus will be pitiful at the end of levels if you don't kill enemies, I'm serious you get a coin bonus at the end of levels based on how many enemies you kill except in boss levels. Skipping enemies when you go through a level will give you like a 3 coin bonus, killing them all can easy net you 300-800.

And coins are going to vital especially when you get the secret doors and the find your self sinking thousands of coins for the secret door stickers.I mean to put this in perspective each door costs 80 coins, at 6 doors you're spending 420 coins. World 3 has 11 levels in it and at 80 coins a pop you're spending 880 coins. In two worlds you've easily just spent 1300 coins on just the secret doors.

Beyond this you have the battle spinner which later game is a really key, I found myself using it a lot starting in world 3. The price for that spinner gets ridiculous very quickly you can easily waste a few hundred on that spinner. And don't forget unless you like lots and lots of backtracking you're going to be using the thing shop and the thing shop is really freaking pricey. I've alone in the last day easily spent 3000 just on things.

If you have a coin shortage the game will become a lot more restricting, a lot less fun, and a lot more tedious. That's your incentive to battle and it's a really good one because of just how vital coins are.
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#25Counterpwnt(Topic Creator)Posted 11/16/2012 12:00:37 PM
quietisgood posted...
Counterpwnt posted...
quietisgood posted...
Your partners were gained in a sensible manner.
lol

What I'm saying is that what makes SMRPG/the Paper Mario games stand out at all from the other Mario games is that they are story-centric traditionally, not gameplay-centric.

lol


What are you lol'ing at? Those games ARE story-centric. Super Mario Sunshine is gameplay-centric. There's more focus on gameplay mechanics than story mechanics—which would be elements like narrative, dialogue, and cinematic material.

And the partners you acquired in the first two games had a reason to join you, a reason to be where they were when you encountered them, and brought specific personality (and on the gameplay side of things, a specific skill) to Mario's journey.


i don't think you understand what a story-centric videogame is.


A video game with more emphasis placed on story-related elements than gameplay-related elements. What else would it be?
#26Counterpwnt(Topic Creator)Posted 11/16/2012 12:02:13 PM
MrGreen9 posted...
This is perfect, everything you mentioned was exactly the reason I'm disappointed with this game. I hope Paper Mario 5 happens on Wii U in the next few years, and I hope it's done like the first two.


Me too. If I could communicate with Intelligent Systems directly, and rationally explain my issue with Sticker Star, I would do so.
#27Counterpwnt(Topic Creator)Posted 11/16/2012 12:09:06 PM
Makoa123 posted...
Counterpwnt posted...
Makoa123 posted...
People are comparing this game too much to the prequels. We get it you liked the first two games. Yes we get it, this game could have been another one of those games. But it's not, so stop reminiscing about old games and move on. I think Sticker Star is good and deserves to go on the shelf with the other good Mario games.


What I'm saying is that what makes SMRPG/the Paper Mario games stand out at all from the other Mario games is that they are story-centric traditionally, not gameplay-centric.

This game is not story-centric. Would you complain if you ordered a hot dog at a restaurant and got a hamburger? It's as simple as that. This is a board for this game and we are discussing it.

Your phrase "but it's not" is exactly what's being discussed here. And this isn't for the people who don't have a problem. This thread is here to pinpoint what the problem is. If you have no problem, then you can't add anything. Unless you want to argue that Sticker Star IS story-centric—to which I say, best of luck.


Ok fine, if Sticker Star doesn't stand out because it's story is lackluster, then it stands out for its innovative, creative, and original battle system. In that regard it shines far more brightly than any other generic RPG.

A game is nothing like a hot dog. You don't consume games like you do food. While you can buy a hot dog from the same place every day and know exactly what to expect, you can't buy a game knowing exactly what you're going to get. In Sticker Star's case, you had an educated guess of what to expect before buying it since it had prequels, but that was still only a guess. It doesn't matter what we're talking about; if you set your expectations too high, don't be surprised when you find yourself disappointed.

While there is merit in saying a game is bad because its prequels were better, I find that argument really weak. If my 1st son became a very successful businessman, that doesn't make my 2nd son bad, a failure, nor a disappointment.
As a standalone title, Sticker Star is very welcoming. I'm glad Nintendo continues to experiment with their consoles and their game design. Now if only they'd do that with the NSMB series....


I'm talking about expectation. Paper Mario, as a series, is based on telling a tale. The Paper reference is as much as reference to writing and reading as it is to the world's paper make-up.

Would you buy a Mario platformer where Mario couldn't jump? Because removing the story elements from a Paper Mario game is the analogous to that. The story is what has traditionally carried the Paper Mario games. I play Super Mario Galaxy for my fingers. I play Paper Mario for my mind.

I'm not saying it's a bad game. As a standalone title it is an excellent game. As a series game, though, it fails to make Mario jump. Do you see what I'm saying?

I'm as disappointed at the lack of story elements as I would be if they released a game with the story merits of TTYD, but with Sonic characters. Half of the series for me is in the "Mario," side—the visuals, characters, and humor. The other half is in the "Paper" side—the narrative, dialogue, and pathos.

If you don't have a problem with the game, I am glad. I tried to not have a problem. I'm still playing the damn thing. I'm still going to finish it and find everything. It doesn't change how I feel about the story side of Sticker Star.
#28Counterpwnt(Topic Creator)Posted 11/16/2012 12:10:42 PM
Hirokey123 posted...
Kromagnum posted...
I like this game, but I liked SPM more. I liked the partners, and I really liked the 2d/3d flipping.

My main gripe with this game is that after a point, battles seem pointless. I'm only in world 2, and I already find myself skipping most enemies in order to save my stickers for the boss.


Don't do that, don't even bother hoarding stickers the game will give you so many everywhere it's just a waste of time to hoard.

What they expect you to do is go full blast, you're reward for going full blast and annihilating the enemies skillfully in one turn. Beyond that your coin bonus will be pitiful at the end of levels if you don't kill enemies, I'm serious you get a coin bonus at the end of levels based on how many enemies you kill except in boss levels. Skipping enemies when you go through a level will give you like a 3 coin bonus, killing them all can easy net you 300-800.

And coins are going to vital especially when you get the secret doors and the find your self sinking thousands of coins for the secret door stickers.I mean to put this in perspective each door costs 80 coins, at 6 doors you're spending 420 coins. World 3 has 11 levels in it and at 80 coins a pop you're spending 880 coins. In two worlds you've easily just spent 1300 coins on just the secret doors.

Beyond this you have the battle spinner which later game is a really key, I found myself using it a lot starting in world 3. The price for that spinner gets ridiculous very quickly you can easily waste a few hundred on that spinner. And don't forget unless you like lots and lots of backtracking you're going to be using the thing shop and the thing shop is really freaking pricey. I've alone in the last day easily spent 3000 just on things.

If you have a coin shortage the game will become a lot more restricting, a lot less fun, and a lot more tedious. That's your incentive to battle and it's a really good one because of just how vital coins are.


You battle to get coins to buy stickers to battle more to get more coins. You buy secret doors to get more things to complete a list or to use in battle, or open new areas to get more things and more coins.

How does that not drive someone crazy?
#29ApolloJusticeAAPosted 11/16/2012 12:20:38 PM
Counterpwnt posted...
Originally, Paper Mario was going to be called "Mario Story." It was a story-centric title. The story is all-important. The story of how Mario does what he does. The journey he takes to do it—whether or not the overall reason (Bowser stole something, ancient evil, whathaveyou) is terribly unique. It's made unique in the way it is presented; this theme is bundled up in the paper the world is made of.

In the first two games, you were given an abundance of long-term and short-term purpose. You grew as you went, as did your partners—both physically in battle prowess, and spiritually in your cultural flow through the worlds you visited, often through some sort of effort—a train, a ride on a whale. Not just moving to a new place on a map. You couldn't just go back to Toad Town or Rogueport on a whim.

The overall mapping made abundant sense. For whatever reason, Decalburg is surrounded by completely non-sensical geography—on one side a forest and on the other side, a desert? To get to the desert in PM64, you had to take a train and go over Mt. Rugged. Mountains often break into plateaus and buttes and steppes and then into desert. It didn't have to make geographical sense, but it did.

Your partners were gained in a sensible manner. Mario lands at the Goomba household after Bowser takes Peach and the Star Wand. They patch him up and get him on his feet, and Goombario joins him as a sort of guide. It's practically Virgilian.

Whether they realize it fully or not, THAT kind of stuff is what made the first two games so endearing and irrefutably appealing. The combat system demanded more patience than does its sticker counterpart, but you were hardly alone. You have one or more partners, and usually plenty of named, personality-heavy NPCs with you or nearby. Mario seems to exist in the world. In PM:SS, he seems to be a stranger in a strange place.

This is the issue with Sticker Star. It doesn't diminish the older games, but it is not what it could have been.


where is it that paper mario was originally going to be called mario story? I thought Paper mario was originally going to be Super Mario RPG 2.

As for your points I respectfully disagree as I have had a blast with sticker star, but I assume that is simply because I came into the game with a completely different mindset on what to expect.

the bolded part is arguably subjective there is no definitive proof that everyone that played Paper Mario enjoyed it for what reasons you enjoyed it.

last the story in all 3 mario games have been rather generic (someone wants to do something evil but mario and whatever gang he has decide that aint going down like that) I wont say they werent better in connectivity than sticker star because yeah they had a better flowing story but to call the games story centric is opinionated at best.

there are plenty of games that have a way bigger emphasis on story than mario such as the Ace Attorney series where unless you deeply enjoy the story and dialogue the investigations and trials wont be nearly as enjoyable.
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#30Hirokey123Posted 11/16/2012 12:26:38 PM
Counterpwnt posted...
Hirokey123 posted...
Kromagnum posted...
I like this game, but I liked SPM more. I liked the partners, and I really liked the 2d/3d flipping.

My main gripe with this game is that after a point, battles seem pointless. I'm only in world 2, and I already find myself skipping most enemies in order to save my stickers for the boss.


Don't do that, don't even bother hoarding stickers the game will give you so many everywhere it's just a waste of time to hoard.

What they expect you to do is go full blast, you're reward for going full blast and annihilating the enemies skillfully in one turn. Beyond that your coin bonus will be pitiful at the end of levels if you don't kill enemies, I'm serious you get a coin bonus at the end of levels based on how many enemies you kill except in boss levels. Skipping enemies when you go through a level will give you like a 3 coin bonus, killing them all can easy net you 300-800.

And coins are going to vital especially when you get the secret doors and the find your self sinking thousands of coins for the secret door stickers.I mean to put this in perspective each door costs 80 coins, at 6 doors you're spending 420 coins. World 3 has 11 levels in it and at 80 coins a pop you're spending 880 coins. In two worlds you've easily just spent 1300 coins on just the secret doors.

Beyond this you have the battle spinner which later game is a really key, I found myself using it a lot starting in world 3. The price for that spinner gets ridiculous very quickly you can easily waste a few hundred on that spinner. And don't forget unless you like lots and lots of backtracking you're going to be using the thing shop and the thing shop is really freaking pricey. I've alone in the last day easily spent 3000 just on things.

If you have a coin shortage the game will become a lot more restricting, a lot less fun, and a lot more tedious. That's your incentive to battle and it's a really good one because of just how vital coins are.


You battle to get coins to buy stickers to battle more to get more coins. You buy secret doors to get more things to complete a list or to use in battle, or open new areas to get more things and more coins.

How does that not drive someone crazy?


Because it's a lot of fun?

I dunno about you but I like having 3 pages of nothing but special attacks so I can anihilate enemies. I like being able to have a large arsenal of stickers at any time. I like that I've almost never had to backtrack. I like being able to explore and see every nook and cranny. I like being able to use multiple attacks in battle whenever I wish.

What would levels do? They'd give you experience so you can get stronger so you can beat tougher enemies to get stronger so you could beat more enemies to get stronger. You keep getting stronger for what? So you can annihilate things easier? That's what having a large variety of stickers lets you do to which is why coins serve the same purpose as experience ultimately. But exp didn't let you attack more than once per turn, exp didn't add an extra level of depth and exploration to the world.

Frankly the way they did battles now actually makes them MORE worth while because they do more than simply make you stronger. They give you more freedom, more ability to create strategies, help enhance the exploration of the world, and they still make you stronger to boot because you get more stickers, more attacks, and more options.
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