The problem with Paper Mario: Sticker Star

#311Genius_SagePosted 12/3/2012 12:00:03 PM
I suggest you ignore Attack Horse or whatever the hell his name is, he's just arguing for the sake of arguing, you can tell by the tactics he's using in the argument.

I know his type from wasting my time during my teen days arguing over internet forums - these people are not out to learn or solve a problem they are out to protect their versions of reality. That's why I don't even bother truly making any points other than telling him to go play an iphone game. That's what he TRULY wants to do. You can tell by the spirit he gives off in his posts.
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#312Attack_A_HorsePosted 12/3/2012 3:13:37 PM
Genius_Sage posted...
I suggest you ignore Attack Horse or whatever the hell his name is, he's just arguing for the sake of arguing, you can tell by the tactics he's using in the argument.

I know his type from wasting my time during my teen days arguing over internet forums - these people are not out to learn or solve a problem they are out to protect their versions of reality. That's why I don't even bother truly making any points other than telling him to go play an iphone game. That's what he TRULY wants to do. You can tell by the spirit he gives off in his posts.


lol what
#313Counterpwnt(Topic Creator)Posted 12/4/2012 7:28:10 AM
Kaabisteru posted...
Absolutely splendid post TC!

I remember once playing Paper Mario 64 for fun and wanting to try something new when I was young. I though fell in love with how much boundaries it broke to me as a Mario-themed game: Peach actually DOES something, not ALL Koopas and Goombas aren't BAD, there's more to it than just going place to place once which made Mt.Rugged one of the most memorable parts in the game, there's so much humour behind pretty bland-looking actor-like characters Mario-series are (Gourmet Guy, that's all. I wrote fanfictions about him.and so on. And also the story felt so big despite being so simple of "collect 7 Macguffins!

Meanwhile TTYD just took all this to a new level, making me laugh even more, cry actually for a Mario-game (spoilers) and also find the sense of humanity and charm behind it's quirky and surreal world and characters. It made Paper Mario feel like a suitable narrative on how Mario's world is like in a sense, yet how it seems to be more deeper and charming than that.

Feeling like posting this on Tumblr for everyone to see and hopefully it might turn the tide of people thinking that this game gets flak for no good reason. It's not we're complaining: it's that the longtime Paper Mario-fans were expected to buy a new Paper Mario expecting a new RPG-adventure but got something that could've just worked as a spinoff, or heck, EVEN A NEW IP.

We have a reason to say TTYD and PM64 had more ambition to them than this one.
And while we do so, we're called being having "nostalgia goggles" and not excusing this game for being "portable" and "fun." Are we supposed to never, EVER say Miyamoto's direction on some game isn't really in our favour or we don't, say, LIKE IT, despite it being fun? It's not good gameplay direction IMO if a game caters to ONLY ONE audience (in this case people who love simple fun games. What about the ones who fell in love with the story elements and the world of the game? That's what Paper Mario and it's sequel did.)

We're the audience for crying out loud, not some people who take fun like it's some kind of drug which is bad: it makes people feel good and but actually tends to be harmful in other aspects (backseating or even removing other important aspects of the game) and doesn't really profit or improve the series, in this case Mario-series. (In means of gameplay. It's neutered SMB3 and SMW mixed together nowadays).


Thanks! I'm definitely going to adapt some of my original post and argument to my blog about video game storylines. You've made some very good points here... which I may steal.

There's really no reason for anyone to just "accept" Sticker Star and move on. It's not a terrible game, or even a bad game, but there was something very special about PM64 and TTYD that just is not there.

I'm just upset it carries the title "Paper Mario" and admittedly (from the developers) has "no story." Miyamoto said "It's fine without a story." It's NOT fine!
#314Counterpwnt(Topic Creator)Posted 12/4/2012 7:33:00 AM
Attack_A_Horse posted...
StarSpriteZero posted...
This is my next school essay, thank you TC!


Don't forget to call your teacher a troll when he/she tells you you haven't proven anything but just hyper-analyzed the plot.


If I say some element is present and you say it isn't, how am I supposed to prove it? I show you where it is in the game and you call it "hyper analysis."

To me, what you call "hyper analysis" is really just "playing the game in an engaged fashion."

If someone read Moby Dick and said that Ahab's mad quest to exact his revenge upon the Leviathan was Christian allegory for the common man's struggles against the devils of the world—or was a lesson in the importance of temperance—or was Melville's literary allegory for his own struggle to capture the "White Whale" of a heralded novel, would you say they were "hyper analyzing" Moby Dick and that it's just about exactly what it appears to be about, with no connection to the author, the intended audience, or the literature of the past?

Give video games the same level of depth, because they definitely have it. Maybe Pong doesn't, but Paper Mario sure does.
#315Attack_A_HorsePosted 12/4/2012 2:21:23 PM
I just don't see how you can argue that Paper Mario has more story elements than gameplay elements without once mentioning anything about the gameplay or the elements involved.

You've proven:
1) Paper Mario has a plot.
2) The intro has a lot of plot.
3) There was a thought process behind the plot.

None of which prove your initial statement/thesis. 315 posts later here you are and you can't prove that Paper Mario is story-centric, by your own definition.

You get supporters because people agree with your dislike of Sticker Star, not because you can create a proper argument with sound logic.
#316StarSpriteZeroPosted 12/4/2012 4:14:51 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#317blackrider76Posted 12/4/2012 7:44:44 PM
Attack_A_Horse posted...
I just don't see how you can argue that Paper Mario has more story elements than gameplay elements without once mentioning anything about the gameplay or the elements involved.

You've proven:
1) Paper Mario has a plot.
2) The intro has a lot of plot.
3) There was a thought process behind the plot.

None of which prove your initial statement/thesis. 315 posts later here you are and you can't prove that Paper Mario is story-centric, by your own definition.

You get supporters because people agree with your dislike of Sticker Star, not because you can create a proper argument with sound logic.


At this point whether it's "story-centric" is irrelevant. The game disappoints on multiple levels, semantics be damned.

On that note, I find it sad that interactive movies like Heavy Rain are what usually tend to be considered "story-centric games" nowadays, as if you could even call them a game to begin with.
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#318DWJtheGamerPosted 12/4/2012 8:28:27 PM
blackrider76 posted...
Attack_A_Horse posted...
I just don't see how you can argue that Paper Mario has more story elements than gameplay elements without once mentioning anything about the gameplay or the elements involved.

You've proven:
1) Paper Mario has a plot.
2) The intro has a lot of plot.
3) There was a thought process behind the plot.

None of which prove your initial statement/thesis. 315 posts later here you are and you can't prove that Paper Mario is story-centric, by your own definition.

You get supporters because people agree with your dislike of Sticker Star, not because you can create a proper argument with sound logic.


At this point whether it's "story-centric" is irrelevant. The game disappoints on multiple levels, semantics be damned.

On that note, I find it sad that interactive movies like Heavy Rain are what usually tend to be considered "story-centric games" nowadays, as if you could even call them a game to begin with.


Frankly I think that people consider it story-centric for it seems like the gameplay is essentialy sucked out save for the couple of high-tension moments. Sort of like a slower, more forgiving Dragon's Lair.
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#319Adamario_129Posted 12/5/2012 12:30:41 AM(edited)
Attack_A_Horse posted...
I just don't see how you can argue that Paper Mario has more story elements than gameplay elements without once mentioning anything about the gameplay or the elements involved.

You've proven:
1) Paper Mario has a plot.
2) The intro has a lot of plot.
3) There was a thought process behind the plot.

None of which prove your initial statement/thesis. 315 posts later here you are and you can't prove that Paper Mario is story-centric, by your own definition.

You get supporters because people agree with your dislike of Sticker Star, not because you can create a proper argument with sound logic.


Even if you're right about this, you're still wrong. If he's proven that Paper Mario has a plot, and it's obviously true that Sticker Star has no plot (by the developers' admission), then that's enough to prove the overarching point that is actually being made here: Paper Mario games have plots, this one doesn't, that's why we're upset. Game, set, match. Arguing over whether there's more plot than gameplay in PM64 is irrelevant, because Sticker Star has no plot. You're just trying to prolong the argument with a dispute over semantics until everyone gives up and you win by default.
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#320BrianCraigSmithPosted 12/5/2012 5:38:15 AM
TC opening comment was pretty detailed, but other than that I can't find myself to counter any of those. I think Paper Mario: Sticker Star is better than average, but lower than Paper standards (not counting Super; never played that one). I agree the story was told in a quick manner, but then again shouldn't we all know a Mario story by now? As in everyone is peaceful and happy, Bowser (King Koopa for old schoolers!) interrupts, and Mario has to fix it. So that didn't bother me.

The sticker battle system is annoying at first, but does lend somewhat of a strategy so that's OK IMO. But at the beginning I hated having to run away due to lack of stickers.
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