Flaws of the Sticker Battle system

#11Hirokey123Posted 11/19/2012 7:39:27 AM
1. Lack of Sticker diversity makes battles very repetitive and eventually boring.

There are 160 stickers even if every sticker had just 4 versions of it that still be 40 different attacks but not every sticker comes in 4 versions so yeah. Furthermore even stickers in the same vein usually have some different properties.

2. Enemies all feel the same. Almost none require any specific strategy. Again, this makes battles very repetitive.

Disagree on first part, no enemies feel the same to me except the obvious ones that are just pallet swap upgrades but every paper mario game has those.

3. "Thing" Stickers are overpowered and fun, but they're such a pain to re-acquire that they aren't worth using in non-boss fights. '

Not true I use thing stickers on a regular basis and constantly refill them in about 40 seconds. You have to stop at decal burg fairly often especially if you're filling the sticker museum so while you're there just take the chance to restock on things. I keep around 6-10 thing stickers on me and use them quite often. Furthermore when you're doing other stuff like searching for HP tokens and secret doors you'll go past a number of thing anyway so you might as well grab them while you're there.

4. After you've done everything you need to with coins, or they get maxed out, battles lose all worth.

This is a fair point but I've never even come close to maxing my coin count so I've never experienced this. Thing stickers, battle spinner, the world 4 store, and the door stickers drain just a ridiculously amount of money. But you could say the same for maxing out your level.

5. Lack of Badges or anything similar prevents you from having any real control on how future battles play out.

You have total control on how the battle plays out and most stickers are badge attacks anyway.

6. You can only attack enemies from the front, severely limiting your strategic options and freedom.

Only if you refuse to use the battle spinner. Your first attack hits in the front, but your second attack targets the second enemy, and your third attack targets the third enemy in your row. Many stickers hit multiple enemies as well or have a trickle damage effect. You're goal is to use all of these to an advantage. With the goal being to figure out which sticker combination will kill them all as quickly as possible. There is quite a bit of strategy into this.

7. Stickers never change position in levels, so any later playthroughs through any particular level will be almost exactly the same as your first one.

This is not even a legitimate complaint at all. No paper mairo changes in this aspect, badges and star pieces aren't suddenly changing locations and neither are your upgraded weapons or the cubes you use to upgrade your partners. Why should stickers change?

8. Since you have only two battle options at any given moment, wasting a valuable stickers is oftentimes unavoidable.

Unless you have only one type of sticker on you, you always have more than two battle strategies. If you divided in into run-attack-defend-and item you still have all these options as long as you've got the stickers. If you stock up on only attack stickers then yes you only have run-attack but that's your choice then.

No reason to consider a battle wasting a sticker, because you'll pretty much be able to immediately replace that sticker with one in the environment. Basically you can't waste a sticker unless you do something really ridiculous like on a single goomba you Oven or an infijump. But that's where part of the strategy comes in, you use the right sticker for the right situation.
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#12cb52211Posted 11/19/2012 8:22:10 AM
I don't feel like the battle system is any more repetitive than the ones from the original or TTYD. In those games you used your basic jump and hammer over and over and occasionally used a slightly stronger attack. I can't think of any RPG that doesn't feature some repetition.
#13wiiking96(Topic Creator)Posted 11/19/2012 10:38:30 AM
As far as I am, this is not the case. Since you have to use up stickers, it actually becomes much less repetitive than TYD. TYD had more attacks total, but since they weren't consumed, you just end up using the same actions in battle unless you equipped new badges. In this one, since you run out of stickers, you end up using different ones from battle to battle, even if you are facing the same enemy composition.

To elaborate on what I said: Each world has almost all the same sticker options, so the battles in every world will play out the same as the last. In TTYD, you got a new partner in the middle of each world and a new Special Attack at the end of each. You also got new abilities from the Super/Ultra Boots and Hammers. You also get items and badges at decent intervals. In the short term, yes, battles can be repetitive, but in the long term, your attack options increase as you go along, which is kind of the point of RPGs.

I don't really think it makes the game repetitive though, actually less, since if you introduce enemies that require specific attacks, you are going to use those specific attacks everytime, and that would be even more repetitive.

Not true, actually. For example: When you encounter Swoopers in the Creepy Steeple, you can use Flurrie, Quake Hammer, Hammer Throw, Yoshi's Egg Toss, an item, or Earth Tremor if you're good.

I agree with the statement, but I don't really think it's a flaw. Would it be better if they were overpowered and easy to get? I think that the flaws with the thing system is that there are just too many of them.

I think the primary problem is that they're consumable. In TTYD, your super attacks are rechargable, so you don't have to worry about permanently losing them for a certain amount of time in a level. And yeah, who's really gonna use all of them with how repetitive they are?

TYD was much worse with this. Because of the way the XP system worked, enemies became less and less worth it to fight as you gained levels in the same area. It came into play a lot more in TYD, because it would go through a new cycle in every area, rather than just going through the one cycle in PMSS.

It's like that so you would fight stronger enemies to level up. And getting a permanent, if small, reward that increases your overall fighting prowness is better than getting something that eventually becomes worthless.

You also need to remember than battles in TTYD could also net you coins, items, and badges. Coins have more uses, too. What if you want to beat your highscores in the Pianta parlor and need coins to buy Piantas?

I really don't understand what you mean here. You can buy stickers, so you can control how battles play out.

I mean you can no longer do things like
- Make more coins appear after batt;e
- Make action commands harder or easier
- Increase or decrease stats as you see fit
- Make it so you regenerate HP or FP as the battle plays out
- Add additional effects that affect ALL battles

That's the whole point of the system. All stickers are meant to be used, not hoarded. That valuable sticker has no value sitting around in your sticker book, and they are all replaceable, so there is no reason to sweat over losing a valuable sticker.

I mean that there should be a "Do Nothing" option in case you can't so anything of worth.
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#14SinfullyvannilaPosted 11/19/2012 10:55:36 AM
To elaborate on what I said: Each world has almost all the same sticker options, so the battles in every world will play out the same as the last. In TTYD, you got a new partner in the middle of each world and a new Special Attack at the end of each. You also got new abilities from the Super/Ultra Boots and Hammers. You also get items and badges at decent intervals. In the short term, yes, battles can be repetitive, but in the long term, your attack options increase as you go along, which is kind of the point of RPGs.

It doesn't work out that way at all in practice though. Unless you memorize every encounter and prepare for it beforehand, it's just not going to work out that way. You'll run out of the optimal stickers to deal with the situation at hand, and then you'll use other ones. And you get new stickers as you go on in PMSS.

Not true, actually. For example: When you encounter Swoopers in the Creepy Steeple, you can use Flurrie, Quake Hammer, Hammer Throw, Yoshi's Egg Toss, an item, or Earth Tremor if you're good.

And, like I said, you are ONLY going to be able to use those attacks.

It's like that so you would fight stronger enemies to level up. And getting a permanent, if small, reward that increases your overall fighting prowness is better than getting something that eventually becomes worthless.

You also need to remember than battles in TTYD could also net you coins, items, and badges. Coins have more uses, too. What if you want to beat your highscores in the Pianta parlor and need coins to buy Piantas?


I understand those things, and I understand what you are saying in theory. But in practice, it made you feel battle fatigue a lot more often and a lot earlier. IMO, that is worse than how the new system works out, where you only begin to feel battle fatigue late in the game when you are loaded on coins.

I mean you can no longer do things like...

Ahh, I see what you mean. That gameplay element is called a global effect, for future reference. And yeah, Global Effects wouldn't work in the Sticker system, so yeah, another inherent flaw.

I mean that there should be a "Do Nothing" option in case you can't so anything of worth.

I don't necessarily have a strong agreement or disagreement for that, but I should point out, the game addresses that with worn-out and standard class basic stickers.
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#15wiiking96(Topic Creator)Posted 11/19/2012 6:17:02 PM
Sinfullyvannila posted...
It doesn't work out that way at all in practice though. Unless you memorize every encounter and prepare for it beforehand, it's just not going to work out that way. You'll run out of the optimal stickers to deal with the situation at hand, and then you'll use other ones.
Not sure how this relates to what I said. I said that since each world has almost the exact same selection of Stickers(as shiny's act no different), then battles among each of the worlds will play out way too similar to each other.

And you get new stickers as you go on in PMSS.
Only weapon stickers, which
a) Are restricted to their world, unless farmed
b) Still act pretty similar to each other

And, like I said, you are ONLY going to be able to use those attacks.
So having 6-8 different attack options on one particular enemy type means its repetitive? Yes, you may use some attacks more than once, but if every attack works on almost every type of enemy, whats the point in having such diverse attack options? It adds strategy.

I understand those things, and I understand what you are saying in theory. But in practice, it made you feel battle fatigue a lot more often and a lot earlier. IMO, that is worse than how the new system works out, where you only begin to feel battle fatigue late in the game when you are loaded on coins.
Not really, because you got a greater diversity of rewards in the old battle system. You could battle just to farm badges with Ms. Mowz if you wanted to.
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#16WayoshiMPosted 11/19/2012 6:22:32 PM
Power balance is an issue. I like the combat style just fine, although I'd like more heads up on when I MUST do something like only use Spike Tops or wait out a Chain Chomp to wake up.
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#17Chaosmaster00Posted 11/19/2012 6:24:10 PM
For the Chain Chomp, they did kinda give a heads up with providing TONS of Baahammers before the second one... but the first was brutal. At least they put a 30 HP Heart before you fought him.
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#18WayoshiMPosted 11/19/2012 6:26:45 PM
Yeah, by the second one I knew exactly what was wanted (although I tried to get around it w/o using one).

But seriously, infinite defense? Why? Why would you expect the battle to be over on the first attack?
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#19Chaosmaster00Posted 11/19/2012 6:30:17 PM
30 HP because:

1st you're going to try hitting it until it wakes up. It wakes up. BAM! 10 damage. And since his stake is probably still in the ground, the battle will continue.

2nd, you're going to try and attack it again while it's still awake, to see if it being awake will allow you to hurt it. It doesn't. BAM! 10 more damage.

3rd. You'll take the hint. Knock off his stake and surrender your anus. He wakes up. BAM! 30 total damage accumulated, and he is gone.
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#20SonicRider13Posted 11/19/2012 6:34:59 PM
Didnt intelligent system make PM64 and TTYD? But not SS and SPM?
Maybe that could be the reason.
I mean I understand it is still under nintendo, but still...
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