Nobody on this board should review a video game. Ever.

#71super_luigi16Posted 1/29/2013 10:54:11 PM
Czar_Yoshi posted...
Ragequitting? I'm still here. I'm definitely not too lazy to make an argument, or else I wouldn't have typed up all that stuff earlier. And I'd love it if you could point out where I was calling you names in that post.

So, if you've listened to all my arguments, why didn't you respond to this?

Czar_Yoshi posted...
super_luigi16 posted...
Besides, you haven't proven that battling is objectively bad;


Probably because I wasn't trying to. I was arguing that battling has no objective incentive, not that it was bad.


So tell me, how does one person's experience affect the population as a whole? Getting Star Points is guaranteed. Having fun is not (it's still possible to have fun, but it's not guaranteed). An objective incentive to battle is something everyone gets for completing the same task, no matter what their opinion on the task is.


Because this point isn't an argument at all--it's simply restating your point and offering no refutation of what I stated. I've argued time and time again that coins are an incentive, battle stickers are an incentive, and that you can't prove that there is no incentive, yet you ignore that to simply make broad statements that say nothing. Rather than arguing against my points, you made a cop-out statement. I find it appalling that you try to call me out for not responding to your arguments when the very quote you refer to is simply a statement that tries to get you out of responding to my arguments!

And I never said Star Points weren't an incentive--what do Star Points have to do with this argument? Telling me that Star Points are an incentive doesn't change the fact that coins and enemy stickers are incentives in this game. Guess what--everyone gets coins and everyone gets enemy stickers. Pointing to Star Points is simply another way to veil your non-argument because you have no evidence, you have no proof, and you have no support for your counterarguments; rather, you're trying to create smoke and mirrors for another ragequit.

And you want me to point out where you name-called? Okay. You called me a troll in this post:

Czar_Yoshi posted...
People, why are you arguing with him? What do you hope to achieve? The only thing I can think of would be to change his mind, but do you really want to do that? I tend to find it embarrassing to be on the same side as a troll.


And, before you try to worm your way out of that, I never said that the name-calling was in that specific post--I just said that you did resort to name-calling; that means it can be in any post.
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#72Czar_YoshiPosted 1/29/2013 11:23:30 PM
super_luigi16 posted...
Because this point isn't an argument at all--it's simply restating your point and offering no refutation of what I stated.


I'm not refuting your "the battle system is not objectively bad" because I agree with it. For the last time, I'm saying it has no objective incentive. There's a big difference.

I've argued time and time again that coins are an incentive, battle stickers are an incentive, and that you can't prove that there is no incentive, yet you ignore that to simply make broad statements that say nothing.


You use more stickers in battle than you get from it, so there's a net loss of stickers. You do not gain stickers from battling, except in the very rare circumstances that you kill everything with one sticker and then get two drops from the fight.

While you do gain coins from battling, it's not rewarding because coins are too common to be valuable. In Ocarina of Time, the only reward for getting all the Gold Skulltulas is infinite rupees- and while you could technically run out of rupees and need them, rupees are so common that it's a really bad reward and isn't any incentive to hunt Gold Skulltulas.

Rather than arguing against my points, you made a cop-out statement. I find it appalling that you try to call me out for not responding to your arguments when the very quote you refer to is simply a statement that tries to get you out of responding to my arguments!

And I never said Star Points weren't an incentive--what do Star Points have to do with this argument? Telling me that Star Points are an incentive doesn't change the fact that coins and enemy stickers are incentives in this game.


Again, you weren't arguing against what I said. I never said the battle system was objectively bad, and yet you spent time telling me about how it wasn't. Why should I respond to that?

Now, you were specifically talking about fun at the time. I was using them as an example of the difference between subjective and objective incentives.

Guess what--everyone gets coins and everyone gets enemy stickers. Pointing to Star Points is simply another way to veil your non-argument because you have no evidence, you have no proof, and you have no support for your counterarguments; rather, you're trying to create smoke and mirrors for another ragequit.


As I said above, you have a net loss of stickers and coins are too common to be valuable. In SSBM, you get some sort of coins for battling, but nobody really cares about them and I wouldn't call them an incentive.

I have lots of evidence. I stated it all back in that post where you took issue with me saying fun is a subjective incentive, and you didn't question any of it except to say that normal stickers are sometimes (mini)boss weaknesses, too.

And you want me to point out where you name-called? Okay. You called me a troll in this post:

*removed because of quote limit*

And, before you try to worm your way out of that, I never said that the name-calling was in that specific post--I just said that you did resort to name-calling; that means it can be in any post.


Fair enough.
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#73wiiking96Posted 1/30/2013 7:23:30 AM
If coins are an incentive to battle, then they are a very poor incentive, because they aren't mutually exclusive to battles.

Enemy Stickers are a good incentive either, because most of them aren't effective against bosses, and Shiny/Flashy Ice/Fire Flowers work well enough for clearing enemies quickly.

If you don't battle in PM64, TTYD, and SPM, you'll be in a world of hurt once you reach the boss. If you don't battle in PMSS, then you'll be A-OK.
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#74shadowreaper7Posted 1/30/2013 8:26:19 AM
In TTYD (which is widely over used in arguments against this game, but that isn't my point) battling gives you Star Points.
Star Points allow you to level up and customise your character as you see fit. There is nothing on the field aside from badges (which in and around themselves require Star Points) allows this customisation. And so the incentive comes to get more Star Points by battling so you can customise your character.

In SS, Coins and thus stickers are argued to be the incentive. Coins are given to you for completing a battle, and more are given if you get a perfect (I.e. not allowing the enemy to damage you, or maybe even have a turn at all). Stickers are also given occasionally in battle, and occasionally as rewards. Though these stickers are usually of low rank and are arguably not very good. (Please note, some stickers are useful from battling, I.e. Snowball, others aren't e.g. jump stickers).
However, these customisation options are also actively given to you on the field. There are an abundance of stickers in every level, some of which being better than others, but there is also an upgrade point in at least two levels for low rank stickers (I.e. small).
Furthermore, Coins are activly strewn about the level in various amounts along with large amounts being offered at the end pending amount of enemies killed. (However 5-3 offers crap tonnes of coins any how, but as a bonus also gives you a Big Flashy Infinijump just to ice the cake).

From these standpoints, it can be argued that battling is not an incentive because you can earn just as many stickers, if not more, by simply using the Secret door stickers (which cost a small amount which is easily gained if you didn't waste any money earnt in the opening levels) to gain specialist stickers which often cost quite a bit (and also, once the door has been used once, its permanent, meaning a free amount of that thing sticker).
Along with the fact that if you were to battle to get stickers. You are over looking the fact that both Flashy and Shiny, along with Big Shiny and occasionally Super Flashy stickers are either given out within the level (by using Paperise on small box squares) or by hitting the question mark boxes strewn about the level with some of the better stickers being hidden off the beaten path which once found once, you never forget. And so its almost infinitely better to just move around the enemies (unless they are those damn jungle guys which have like 99.9% accuracy with those damn spears) and collect the freely respawning flashy/shiny stickers, and collect the thing stickers (which cap at 1, I.e. you can't have multiples of the same sticker) in order to buff your inventory without having to battle at all. Granted you can if you enjoy it, and i fully advise battling if you enjoy it, it'll help with the achievements.
But one method is far superior to the other in order of how quickly you could prepare for a boss fight, which is ultimately this games goal. Hence i will state again, there is very little incentive for you to battle in order to get coins to buy stickers, other than if you want a slight inventory buff for the sticker you used. Or if you want the achievements.

If you want it in real terms, look at Britain today and its welfare system.
If you go into work and I pay you 15 a day (Yes i'm fully aware that this is completely and utterly false), you'll keep working under the assumption you may get more money that you can't find elsewhere and be awared for achievements.

If however, whilst on the street you can also find 15 a day as you stroll by. And you can find this money every single day because you walk behind a careless banker.

Which would you rather have?

That is the argument Sticker star presents.
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#75SpunkySixPosted 1/30/2013 4:48:08 PM
SL is seriously still playing the selective memory game? Okay.
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