Everybody on this board should review video games. Always.

#11Bass50Posted 1/24/2013 4:38:47 PM(edited)
Mirror_Aura posted...
From: Bass50 | Posted: 1/24/2013 3:49:21 PM | #005
poptarts22 posted...
Regardless of your deep passions for story, story doesn't make or break a videogame. Gameplay does. A good story IS a nice thing to have as a cherry on top, but it's not the determining factor on whether or not I am having FUN. If story is more important than gameplay to you, try checking out these other things featuring paper: Books.

It does when the series is known for focusing on story. Unless you're saying that Square Enix could get away with releasing a FF game that focuses on the gameplay while the story becomes nothing more than an afterthought and it'd be a good game?

Paper Mario is not known for focusing on story, and Final Fantasy has had several non-story-focused entries, like 1, 5, etc.

I didn't bother reading the rest of your post. Story isn't nearly as important as you seem to think. :/


How the hell is FFV not story based?! You must have it confused with something else. There is no way that a game that has characters with backstory, a story about two worlds that are linked in some way and a freaking OVA series that tells the story of the world set ages after the game, with a couple of the same locations and references to past characters(one of the main characters is the descendant of one of the important NPCs from the game) isn't story focused. FF1 gets a pass since it was made over twenty years ago.

Also, how are TTYD and SPM not story heavy. The story is what drives both games. If you take away the story, you have a simplistic(which isn't bad) RPG battle simulator. You clearly don't know what you're talking about and I advise you stop before making yourself look even more foolish.
#12SpunkySixPosted 1/24/2013 7:52:42 PM(edited)
Story is what gives a game purpose, immersion, atmosphere, tension, pacing and often times humor. Without it, games like PM64, TTYD, SPM, Dead Rising 1 and 2, The Company of Myself and Rayman 2 would be empty shells of what they are now. It's not just "lol plot". Obviously gameplay is majorly important, but that only goes so far if there's no reason to care about it on a personal level.

Even if you don't feel like story is super important, you're affected by it in a positive way if it's done well enough. You might not care about DR2's overarching mystery plot a ton, but without it, Leon is just a stupid biker boss that you fight for EXP. With it, he's a total jerkwad that the player can't wait to tear in to for personal reasons.
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#13GeneraLightPosted 1/24/2013 8:18:10 PM
Bass50 posted...
GeneraLight posted...
Who are you to say story matters in a series with story? You don't need story in -any- game, regardless of what franchise it belongs to.


Ha! You're hilarious. "Story doesn't matter in a series that focuses on story" indeed. What's the matter, can't accept that video games have evolved beyond being storyless button pressing hobbies and have actually become something better? Really, they don't need stories, you say? Tell that to Square Enix, XSeed, Namco, etc. Maybe you shouldn't post when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Your analpain is astonishing.
#14SpunkySixPosted 1/24/2013 10:21:18 PM
GeneraLight posted...
Bass50 posted...
GeneraLight posted...
Who are you to say story matters in a series with story? You don't need story in -any- game, regardless of what franchise it belongs to.


Ha! You're hilarious. "Story doesn't matter in a series that focuses on story" indeed. What's the matter, can't accept that video games have evolved beyond being storyless button pressing hobbies and have actually become something better? Really, they don't need stories, you say? Tell that to Square Enix, XSeed, Namco, etc. Maybe you shouldn't post when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Your analpain is astonishing.


No, your argument is just dumb. You don't NEED a lot of things in games, but that doesn't stop them from being extremely important, especially in series with firmly established elements like stories where people already expect them.

And the guy implied that stories are only for books. Really? I wasn't aware that other media was so useless for conveying emotion through plot and characterization. Excuse me while I go rewrite my definition of art and storytelling so that it's exclusive to non interactive written word without illustrations of any sort.
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Tissue to the extreme!
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#15DMZappPosted 1/24/2013 10:45:28 PM(edited)
poptarts22 posted...
Regardless of your deep passions for story, story doesn't make or break a videogame. Gameplay does. A good story IS a nice thing to have as a cherry on top, but it's not the determining factor on whether or not I am having FUN. If story is more important than gameplay to you, try checking out these other things featuring paper: Books.


...Uh, dude, no matter the medium (animation, comics, literature, movies, tampon commercials, and video games), story always comes first.

And even in the case of video games, where the player is expected to pave their own path most of the time, there should be a ratio of story to gameplay time depending on the genre. Too many cutscenes over gameplay can be harmful and unfun, (as I came to learn from Eternal Sonata on Xbox 360), and too few cutscenes in a role playing game can make the game feel unambitious.

Now, if it's decided from the start to not have alot story, or if the concept doesn't have much to build a story around (like arcade puzzle games), then that's cool. But the developer has to make sure that the game is completely thought out and the only game the consumer will ever want to play. Otherwise, they come off as cheapskates.

The best and most memorable games actually connect gameplay to story and/or vice-versa (like how the story of Super Paper Mario actually dictates levels and gameplay functions available in chapters 6, 7, and 8 of the game, or how Mieu joining in Tales of the Abyss gives access to the Sorceror's Ring, or how this game's Scuttlebug level makes the player treasure the hammer and Kersti a little more...mind you, my brain rages at the mere idea of describing Sticker Star as best game)
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#16Czar_YoshiPosted 1/24/2013 11:52:21 PM(edited)
DMZapp posted...
Too many cutscenes over gameplay can be harmful and unfun,


Or overly obnoxious, confusing and plothole-riddled ones like Sonic '06...

The best and most memorable games actually connect gameplay to story and/or vice-versa (like how the story of Super Paper Mario actually dictates levels and gameplay functions available in chapters 6, 7, and 8 of the game, or how Mieu joining in Tales of the Abyss gives access to the Sorceror's Ring, or how this game's Scuttlebug level makes the player treasure the hammer and Kersti a little more...mind you, my brain rages at the mere idea of describing Sticker Star as best game)


I would define a game with perfect balance this way as one in which every gameplay facet available makes sense with the story when you think about it, but feels natural and the game never points it out beyond the occasional "did you notice how...?" optional NPC text. That is, you can learn how to play the game (and even the ins and outs of some mechanics) just by reading the story. No tutorials needed.

Of course, both the gameplay and story need to be of at least average quality for this to work.
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#17RethalwolfPosted 1/25/2013 12:20:39 AM
Honestly, I agree with your points but you really got off on the wrong foot with the story thing.
Games that aren't supposed to have stories include: Arcade fighting games. That is literally it. Now, if they made Sticker Mortal Kombat and everyone just hated the story, I could see where you get off saying everyone was complaining for the wrong reasons.

But you have to realize that story is the most important aspect of anygame, after playability. And playability, believe it or not, does not include gameplay. It's just, do the controls work, and are the visuals clear. That's pretty much it.
Gameplay is certainly important, though, and this game certainly lacks good gameplay. But first and foremost what it lacks is a good story.

My problem with partners being gone is because they are a phenomenal medium of presenting backstories and substories. If they had done anything like that without partners, I'd have nothing to complain about. (and because I really like the team combat system of these games but I'm lumping that in with gameplay.)

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to Sticker Mortal Kombat. Awesome game.
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#18GeneraLightPosted 1/25/2013 8:26:49 AM
SpunkySix posted...
GeneraLight posted...
Bass50 posted...
GeneraLight posted...
Who are you to say story matters in a series with story? You don't need story in -any- game, regardless of what franchise it belongs to.


Ha! You're hilarious. "Story doesn't matter in a series that focuses on story" indeed. What's the matter, can't accept that video games have evolved beyond being storyless button pressing hobbies and have actually become something better? Really, they don't need stories, you say? Tell that to Square Enix, XSeed, Namco, etc. Maybe you shouldn't post when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Your analpain is astonishing.


No, your argument is just dumb. You don't NEED a lot of things in games, but that doesn't stop them from being extremely important, especially in series with firmly established elements like stories where people already expect them.

And the guy implied that stories are only for books. Really? I wasn't aware that other media was so useless for conveying emotion through plot and characterization. Excuse me while I go rewrite my definition of art and storytelling so that it's exclusive to non interactive written word without illustrations of any sort.

Platformers, puzzles, sports, racing, fighting, RTS, simulation, etc. A lot of those genres do not have stories.

Gameplay is the most important aspect of a game. Story is one of the least important aspects.
#19Mirror_AuraPosted 1/25/2013 9:00:41 AM
From: Rethalwolf | Posted: 1/25/2013 3:20:39 AM | #017
But you have to realize that story is the most important aspect of anygame, after playability.

As a fact, Nintendo survives as a business because they make money off of selling copies of their games to make up for the cost of creating and producing those games. As another fact, almost every top-selling game on *all* Nintendo systems lacks an intricate story/narrative, and the #1 game for each Nintendo system are all like that. There's the possible exception of Pokemon, but if you seriously think that game has any sort of advanced narrative, you're wrong... and it wouldn't excuse the other games which are mostly devoid of story.

Oh boy, Zelda : OoT is so impressive with 6-7 million sales! OMG, THAT MUST BE RELATED TO ITS STORY, RIGHT? Oops, Donkey Kong Country 1 on the SNES had 9 million sales, and it had about as much story as the original Donkey Kong. Mario? No story there, sorry! Metroid, Tetris, Mario Kart, Zelda 1-3, Super Smash Brothers, Wii Sports/Play/Fit/Party... no story in the best-selling games there!

New Super Mario Brothers on the DS had almost 30 million sales. Which of those sales were from people hoping to find the "story"? Not many, I bet. That's because STORY DOES NOT MATTER. This is an objective fact of gaming and is only argued on websites where the vocal minority get to speak, such as GameFAQs (i.e. where we are now). It is widely known among the non-hardcore gaming audience that story is fluff, or extraneous, or just pointless. How many "story games" do you know with sales close to 30 million? Even the combined sales of the first six Final Fantasy games, multiplied by 3, don't reach that high. Again, that's a fact.

If you want to sit there and talk about how great stories are, fine. Go enjoy a game that is truly focused on story, like Planescape: Torment, which might as well just be a big book instead. But please don't pretend that video games as a business survive on storylines, plots, or narratives. They do not. And if every video game developer switched to story-only games, the business would die, and your "story games" would not be able to be made. You get story-focused games because the industry makes the majority of its money on other kinds of games, i.e. ones that don't shove a boring story narrative onto the player. Period.
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#20Bass50Posted 1/25/2013 9:32:29 AM(edited)
Mirror_Aura posted...
From: Rethalwolf | Posted: 1/25/2013 3:20:39 AM | #017
But you have to realize that story is the most important aspect of anygame, after playability.

As a fact, Nintendo survives as a business because they make money off of selling copies of their games to make up for the cost of creating and producing those games. As another fact, almost every top-selling game on *all* Nintendo systems lacks an intricate story/narrative, and the #1 game for each Nintendo system are all like that. There's the possible exception of Pokemon, but if you seriously think that game has any sort of advanced narrative, you're wrong... and it wouldn't excuse the other games which are mostly devoid of story.

Oh boy, Zelda : OoT is so impressive with 6-7 million sales! OMG, THAT MUST BE RELATED TO ITS STORY, RIGHT? Oops, Donkey Kong Country 1 on the SNES had 9 million sales, and it had about as much story as the original Donkey Kong. Mario? No story there, sorry! Metroid, Tetris, Mario Kart, Zelda 1-3, Super Smash Brothers, Wii Sports/Play/Fit/Party... no story in the best-selling games there!

New Super Mario Brothers on the DS had almost 30 million sales. Which of those sales were from people hoping to find the "story"? Not many, I bet. That's because STORY DOES NOT MATTER. This is an objective fact of gaming and is only argued on websites where the vocal minority get to speak, such as GameFAQs (i.e. where we are now). It is widely known among the non-hardcore gaming audience that story is fluff, or extraneous, or just pointless. How many "story games" do you know with sales close to 30 million? Even the combined sales of the first six Final Fantasy games, multiplied by 3, don't reach that high. Again, that's a fact.

If you want to sit there and talk about how great stories are, fine. Go enjoy a game that is truly focused on story, like Planescape: Torment, which might as well just be a big book instead. But please don't pretend that video games as a business survive on storylines, plots, or narratives. They do not. And if every video game developer switched to story-only games, the business would die, and your "story games" would not be able to be made. You get story-focused games because the industry makes the majority of its money on other kinds of games, i.e. ones that don't shove a boring story narrative onto the player. Period.


So Nintendo is the only company that makes and sells video games and the only video games with stories are boring games that would be better in book format? So the Metroid Prime series wasn't an awesome series that had a focus on story and Fire Emblem doesn't exist, then?

Seriously, grow up and accept video games have evolved beyond being run and jump platformers with little to no story. Also, nobody is saying to switch to story only; as has been said, some genres still work without a story. That doesn't mean story is any less important than playability, graphics or music. Just because a game sells well doesn't mean story isn't important.

Oh, you still haven't said how FFV isn't story based. I'd love to hear your moon logic explanation for that.