I never noticed this about the World 2 boss (World 2 boss spoilers)

#21xenos74Posted 2/1/2013 5:07:25 PM
wiiking96 posted...
xenos74 posted...
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the fact that Kersti gives you a clue during the battle about how to weaken him or any other boss. I first noticed it with this boss when I lost after trying to outlast his insane hps.

It seems that with any (or most, to my knowledge, I didn't test it on all), kersti talks to Mario about a clue after the 2nd or 3rd turn if you've lost once to said boss.

Knowing this, and the fact that I haven't seen anyone mention this yet in this thread , leads me to believe that most people just thought the battle was impossible and looked up a walkthrough , or actually toughed it out and beat these bosses doing pitiful dmg

The bolded part is why your argument is idiotic.


Yes because obviously you're supposed to win every battle in your first attempt. Get real lol.

The game isn't hard, that's a no brainer, but the bosses without their specific thing sticker are for the most part no joke
#22wiiking96Posted 2/1/2013 5:21:05 PM
xenos74 posted...
Yes because obviously you're supposed to win every battle in your first attempt. Get real lol.

You should at least have a reasonable chance. Telling you how to beat the boss AFTER YOU FIRST DIE AGAINST IT is just poor design. You should die against a boss because your strategy was flawed or you didn't prepare yourself by fighting enemies to make yourself stronger, not because you had no idea what to do. The developers could have had hints for how to beat the boss in the level before you fight it, but no, you have to make a ridiculous guess.

The game isn't hard, that's a no brainer, but the bosses without their specific thing sticker are for the most part no joke

And completely because of cheap difficulty.
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#23SpunkySixPosted 2/1/2013 5:32:31 PM
The bosses are very easy to beat without their specific sticker for the most part with hosplippers. Even without those, the only reason any of them besides maybe one or two are any sort of difficult is because of their stupidly high HP. The attack patterns themselves are fairly simple.
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#24SpunkySixPosted 2/1/2013 5:38:16 PM
Curse posted...
PT_Piranha posted...
Curse posted...
Yeah, but at least they give you a shortcut, so backtracking to get it isn't too bad.


There is a shortcut in World 2's boss stage.


Yeah, that's what I said. There's a shortcut.

Anyway, I didn't know Kertsi gave tips like those. I just went in, tried to survive long enough to observe and try to figure out what the boss might be weak against, and then tried to survive long enough to see at what point it could be used, and then either ran or reset. I'm not a big fan of having to leave the stage, go get a thing sticker, and then go back to the boss. But I think if they gave the hint before the battle, it would be somewhat less interesting. There's a certain appeal to having to observe what the boss is doing and figuring it out on your own. Boss battles would be a lot more boring if you went in knowing exactly what to expect.


You mean it would be boring if the tension of the boss wasn't totally killed by forced backtracking, and you could actually focus on fighting the boss because the whole thing wasn't based around thinly veiled lock and key puzzles and otherwise wasn't super easy? Huh. Okay.

Maybe that reads as me being a jerk, but I'm not trying to be. I just question how that sort of thing made bosses more exciting or fun. To me it made them tedious lessons in video game meta thinking, and regardless of opinion, there was definitely a better way to design them that would generally please people more while keeping with the puzzle elements.
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Tissue to the extreme!
Oh, the food? Tasted like blood...
#25CursePosted 2/1/2013 6:41:22 PM
No, what I mean is that it would be boring if the boss was essentially the same as any random encounter but with more HP and that doesn't require anything other than being at the right level to defeat, which is the case with most turn-based RPGs, including Paper Mario. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the backtracking part, but the "thinly veiled lock and key" element at least forces you to think beyond the "hammer or jump?" mechanic.
#26wiiking96Posted 2/1/2013 8:59:19 PM
Curse posted...
No, what I mean is that it would be boring if the boss was essentially the same as any random encounter but with more HP and that doesn't require anything other than being at the right level to defeat, which is the case with most turn-based RPGs, including Paper Mario.

That's kind of the whole point of bosses in any game: Being very strong and/or complex enemies.

Like I said, I'm not a fan of the backtracking part, but the "thinly veiled lock and key" element at least forces you to think beyond the "hammer or jump?" mechanic.

But it was executed terribly is just less fun that fighting bosses the traditional way.
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More villains need to be protagonists. BiS proves it can work.
Ridley, Ganondorf, Fawful, Bowser, and Dimentio all for their own games!
#27howdydoodlePosted 2/1/2013 9:11:06 PM
I didn't care for the way boss battles in this game were designed.

I enjoyed the game, mind you, but having to either A) read a faq; B) be really lucky, or C) be psychic and know exactly what the devs were thinking in order to win on my first try was annoying. Especially since you just don't have enough room in your sticker album to carry every single sticker you might need.

I immediately realized I needed the bat, but I didn't have it with me. (Also, I didn't know that you can run from a boss battle since that doesn't usually work in other games.)
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#28CursePosted 2/1/2013 9:40:03 PM
wiiking96 posted...
Curse posted...
No, what I mean is that it would be boring if the boss was essentially the same as any random encounter but with more HP and that doesn't require anything other than being at the right level to defeat, which is the case with most turn-based RPGs, including Paper Mario.

That's kind of the whole point of bosses in any game: Being very strong and/or complex enemies.


Yeah, but that's my point. Bosses in turn-based RPGs are usually no more complex than random enemies. They just take longer to kill. There's exceptions, but Paper Mario was never one of them. Don't get me wrong, I love TTYD and it's one of my favorite RPGs, but there's absolutely no tension in the boss battles. They're easy and require no thought or strategy to beat. They're just long and that's it.

wiiking96 posted...
Curse posted...
Like I said, I'm not a fan of the backtracking part, but the "thinly veiled lock and key" element at least forces you to think beyond the "hammer or jump?" mechanic.

But it was executed terribly is just less fun that fighting bosses the traditional way.


I personally don't think that anything can be less fun than wailing on an enemy for 15 turns in a turn-based combat system. The execution isn't perfect, but having to pay attention to the boss' fighting style, thinking back to which things you found in that world (which also gives a reason for exploration), and trying to figure out which one can counter him and when to use it is fun. I don't think that the backtracking alone is enough to ruin it. It's certainly better than fighting a boss that is only different from the random enemies you fought on the way to him in a practical sense in that he has 10 times more HP. I just don't see the appeal in that.
#29Chaosmaster00Posted 2/1/2013 9:43:42 PM
I think if the Things were executed better, neither side would have a complaint like this. Pick up the Bat and use it whenever you want afterwards, instead of having to stickerize it and then only get one use before you have to buy it or find it again... don't get me wrong, the boss system wasn't that bad (minus the "dividing damage defense", which renders most normal battle stickers almost useless), but Things could have been implemented so much better.
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#30wiiking96Posted 2/1/2013 9:52:17 PM
Curse posted...
Yeah, but that's my point. Bosses in turn-based RPGs are usually no more complex than random enemies. They just take longer to kill. There's exceptions, but Paper Mario was never one of them. Don't get me wrong, I love TTYD and it's one of my favorite RPGs, but there's absolutely no tension in the boss battles. They're easy and require no thought or strategy to beat. They're just long and that's it.

What a load of garbage.

Have you even fought against Huff 'n Puff, the Crystal King, Magnus von Grapple, or Macho Grubba? All these bosses and more require strategy and you can't just wale on them the whole match. Are there ways to break bosses? Sure, but they aren't always obvious and you'll rarely have a very easy time on you're first playthough.

The bosses are definitely more complex than standard enemies; that's not even up for arguing. Bosses have more attacks, multiple phases, and they often require special ways to be defeated. Can you honestly say that Cortez isn't more complex than standard enemies?

I personally don't think that anything can be less fun than wailing on an enemy for 15 turns in a turn-based combat system. The execution isn't perfect, but having to pay attention to the boss' fighting style, thinking back to which things you found in that world (which also gives a reason for exploration), and trying to figure out which one can counter him and when to use it is fun. I don't think that the backtracking alone is enough to ruin it.

It's not fun for most people because it just relies on luck or moon logic. There's no strategy involved. You are in the minority.

It's certainly better than fighting a boss that is only different from the random enemies you fought on the way to him in a practical sense in that he has 10 times more HP. I just don't see the appeal in that.

See above for why you are very wrong in this.
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More villains need to be protagonists. BiS proves it can work.
Ridley, Ganondorf, Fawful, Bowser, and Dimentio all for their own games!