FE13 proves that this game was ruined by Miyamoto and that IS is a good company.

#21McmadnessV3Posted 2/3/2013 4:24:49 PM
SpunkySix posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
SpunkySix posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
Why do people keep bringing up miyamoto when it comes to NSMB?

He wasn't in charge of those developement teams.


He's still a hypocrite because he allows his characters to be used in samey platformers over and over, but complains that this game felt like a "port". He could have said something to the NSMB team if he wanted to, he's Miyamoto for Toad's sake. But no, THIS is the series he arbitrarily decided needed big changes.


Of course he was going to make a comment about this game, he was in charge of the development team, not the NSMB teams. If he had any say on the NSMB games (which he doesn't) than I would imagine he would make a few changes.


So the creator of Mario has absolutely no say in the creation of main series Mario games? I call bull. The man is insanely influential and actually caused NSMBW to not have the story it was going to, so he's already shown that he CAN change those games. He's being a hypocrite in not doing so, ESPECIALLY with 2, where he had the design team change how Mario used the gold block, but was totally okay with nearly every boss being recycled and having no new world themes.


Well technically NSMB isn't the main mario series, its just a bunch of games designed to be throwbacks to older Mario games, the current Main series are the 3D ones.

And yes, believe it or not, while Miyamoto is the creator of Mario, he is not the one who owns it and as such does not have a say in everything that happens to it.

And lets not forget the fact that Miyamoto is an extremely busy man, he is always involved in several projects at once, not all of them Mario related.



And since when was Super Mario bros wii going to have a plot? I haven't found anything that suggests that it was originally going to have a plot of some kind that Miyamoto apparently convinced them to ditch.
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#22SpunkySixPosted 2/3/2013 5:22:07 PM
GloryChaos posted...
In this topic: The director apparently didn't AGREE with Miyamoto about no story in the Iwata Asks and one man makes a whole game by himself.


In this post: Miyamoto is not insanely influential and does not have enough respect to change people's minds, and also he does not have responsibility as the SUPERVISOR to make sure that his ideas are implemented correctly.
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#23SpunkySixPosted 2/3/2013 5:31:30 PM
I can't find the Iwata Asks, but basically NSMBW was going to have a larger plot in it, then Miyamoto said that he didn't want the game to get bogged down and felt that Peach liking cake and getting kidnapped was good enough. Bye bye plot.

Even though Sonic 3 managed to have more of a story than that without bogging the game down in the 90's.

?
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#24McmadnessV3Posted 2/4/2013 5:47:07 AM
SpunkySix posted...
I can't find the Iwata Asks, but basically NSMBW was going to have a larger plot in it, then Miyamoto said that he didn't want the game to get bogged down and felt that Peach liking cake and getting kidnapped was good enough. Bye bye plot.

Even though Sonic 3 managed to have more of a story than that without bogging the game down in the 90's.

?


Sonic 3? Plot?


Hah thats a good one.
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#25Master_GamerPosted 2/4/2013 6:59:01 AM
-The Mega Man (Classic) fanbase with their hatred of 4-8, but extreme love (and by that, I mean ****-sucking) of 9 and 10, just because they were identical to 2, yet pan the entire Battle Network and Star Force series for being "samey"...

Um, I've never seen fans put 4 in the same league as 5-8. Probably because 4 owns, even the developers agree it's the pinnacle of the classic formula.
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#26ThatGuyZPosted 2/4/2013 8:59:35 AM
Master_Gamer posted...
-The Mega Man (Classic) fanbase with their hatred of 4-8, but extreme love (and by that, I mean ****-sucking) of 9 and 10, just because they were identical to 2, yet pan the entire Battle Network and Star Force series for being "samey"...

Um, I've never seen fans put 4 in the same league as 5-8. Probably because 4 owns, even the developers agree it's the pinnacle of the classic formula.


4 was the game where the fanbase started to criticize the series, primarily because:

-It was the 4th game with no real changes in "substance" and look
-It gave Mega Man the Mega Buster(Charge Shot), something a LOT of people complained about...
-People started throwing out the "Capcom's outta ideas" cry because of bosses like Pharaoh- and ToadMan.

At this point, it was pretty much "6 was the only good thing to come out of the later Classic series", and anything that wasn't like 2 was the worst...
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#27DMZappPosted 2/4/2013 12:02:05 PM
McmadnessV3 posted...
SpunkySix posted...
I can't find the Iwata Asks, but basically NSMBW was going to have a larger plot in it, then Miyamoto said that he didn't want the game to get bogged down and felt that Peach liking cake and getting kidnapped was good enough. Bye bye plot.

Even though Sonic 3 managed to have more of a story than that without bogging the game down in the 90's.

?


Sonic 3? Plot?


Hah thats a good one.


Uh, you did play through Sonic 3, right, Mcmadness? I mean, it wasn't a complex story, but there were non-gameplay related events happening in the game and not the manual.

-Knuckles taking away the Chaos Emeralds in the first cutscene, then the game starting without the screen fading out
-bombing of Angel Island, without taking control away from the player
-Marble Garden Zone's miniboss' influence on the level
-Knuckles knocking out the power to Carnival Night
-The Death Egg launching at Launch Base Zone
-Eggman totally betraying Knuckles at Hidden Palace
-Knuckles thinking of using the Sky Sanctuary for Sonic and Tails to use as a shortcut to get to the Death Egg
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#28McmadnessV3Posted 2/4/2013 12:31:13 PM
DMZapp posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
SpunkySix posted...
I can't find the Iwata Asks, but basically NSMBW was going to have a larger plot in it, then Miyamoto said that he didn't want the game to get bogged down and felt that Peach liking cake and getting kidnapped was good enough. Bye bye plot.

Even though Sonic 3 managed to have more of a story than that without bogging the game down in the 90's.

?


Sonic 3? Plot?


Hah thats a good one.


Uh, you did play through Sonic 3, right, Mcmadness? I mean, it wasn't a complex story, but there were non-gameplay related events happening in the game and not the manual.

-Knuckles taking away the Chaos Emeralds in the first cutscene, then the game starting without the screen fading out
-bombing of Angel Island, without taking control away from the player
-Marble Garden Zone's miniboss' influence on the level
-Knuckles knocking out the power to Carnival Night
-The Death Egg launching at Launch Base Zone
-Eggman totally betraying Knuckles at Hidden Palace
-Knuckles thinking of using the Sky Sanctuary for Sonic and Tails to use as a shortcut to get to the Death Egg



Yes I've played the game, thats not plot, thats just random little cutscenes, even NSMB has random little cutscenes.
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#29Bass50Posted 2/4/2013 2:42:19 PM
McmadnessV3 posted...
DMZapp posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
SpunkySix posted...
I can't find the Iwata Asks, but basically NSMBW was going to have a larger plot in it, then Miyamoto said that he didn't want the game to get bogged down and felt that Peach liking cake and getting kidnapped was good enough. Bye bye plot.

Even though Sonic 3 managed to have more of a story than that without bogging the game down in the 90's.

?


Sonic 3? Plot?


Hah thats a good one.


Uh, you did play through Sonic 3, right, Mcmadness? I mean, it wasn't a complex story, but there were non-gameplay related events happening in the game and not the manual.

-Knuckles taking away the Chaos Emeralds in the first cutscene, then the game starting without the screen fading out
-bombing of Angel Island, without taking control away from the player
-Marble Garden Zone's miniboss' influence on the level
-Knuckles knocking out the power to Carnival Night
-The Death Egg launching at Launch Base Zone
-Eggman totally betraying Knuckles at Hidden Palace
-Knuckles thinking of using the Sky Sanctuary for Sonic and Tails to use as a shortcut to get to the Death Egg



Yes I've played the game, thats not plot, thats just random little cutscenes, even NSMB has random little cutscenes.


Did it add to the story and give even a small amount of personality to certain characters? Yes, it did. Through those "random little cutscenes" alone one can discern that Knuckles wanted the Chaos Emeralds for some reason, someone was attacking Angel Island(kind of obvious who, but still), Knuckles saw Sonic as a threat(constantly harassing him trying to keep him from advancing further) and sided with Robotnik for some reason.

In Sonic and Knuckles, Robotnik's Betrayal of Knuckles in the Hidden Palace Zone pretty much confirms that he tricked him and then there's the reveal of the Sky Sanctuary Zone and etc.

So yes, that's plot, because Plot is a literary term defined as the events that make up a story, particularly as they relate to one another in a pattern, in a sequence, through cause and effect, how the reader views the story, or simply by coincidence.

Do those cutscenes make up a story? Yes. Do they relate to one another in a pattern? Yep, it's not full of twists and turns, but it's a pattern; a straightforward one at that. Do the events that happen in those scenes affect the story in some way? Yep. Angel Island Act 2, Marble Garden Act 2; both areas that are affected by one of Robotnik's machines. Carnival Night Act 2 is affected by Knuckles' meddling, as well. Do all these scenes change how the viewer perceives the story? Yep. Again, it's not a deep story, but it's pretty easy to link every one of those scenes into a cohesive story about how Robotnik tricked an Inhabitant of the Floating Island into attacking Sonic while he or one of his robots played the villain, all so he could launch the Death Egg uninterrupted(which backfired on him because Sonic is Sonic) and then he continued the charade so he could steal the Master Emerald; finally revealing his true intentions to Knuckles, the unwitting pawn in his plan, resulting in him forming an alliance with the one he thought was his enemy to stop Robotnik and save his home.

I'd say that makes up a decent story, wouldn't you?
#30SpunkySixPosted 2/4/2013 7:53:00 PM
Thanks, great summary.

I'd like to add in the facts that Hidden Palace has an etching in the wall that foreshadows the final battle in space as well as every level connection and Knuckles' story taking place AFTER Sonic's and continuing the plot.
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