On Paper Mario Sticker Star

#1ckfy63aPosted 2/17/2013 1:39:13 PM
Hi everyone. My name is Jason; I've been playing Mario RPG's since 1999 when I received Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars for my birthday. I've loved every single one. I prepared a very, very long post (1630 words...) about why I think people are being unfair towards Sticker Star, and it is too long to be posted here...as such, I made a Google Document for it, and I urge you all to check it out, and let me know your thoughts on this and on the game itself. Thanks.

I wrote this because of all the rude comments I've been seeing about Shiggy Miyamoto's involvement in Sticker Star, and also because of all of the unfair, biased reviews of the game.

Thanks. Please give it a read.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/136f3_-DToiNJ2UiQPYEw97aNu0DzgJlNl3z2XfVt67c/edit
#2PT_PiranhaPosted 2/17/2013 1:51:29 PM
As much as I liked the game too, I think the biggest problem was the execution and with the long wait between announcement and release (which allowed a lot of hype).

I can understand the reasoning, though. I feel you could've cited your sources better, though.
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#3ckfy63a(Topic Creator)Posted 2/17/2013 2:48:29 PM
PT_Piranha posted...
As much as I liked the game too, I think the biggest problem was the execution and with the long wait between announcement and release (which allowed a lot of hype).

I can understand the reasoning, though. I feel you could've cited your sources better, though.


I couldn't agree more; 2.5 years was WAY too long of a wait, especially for a portable.

Also, thank you for the criticism. I viewed most of the stuff in the editorial (besides the Miyamoto bit) to be common knowledge, and I specifically did not want to advertise Seger's biased review.
#4Czar_YoshiPosted 2/17/2013 3:46:25 PM
ckfy63a posted...
PT_Piranha posted...
As much as I liked the game too, I think the biggest problem was the execution and with the long wait between announcement and release (which allowed a lot of hype).

I can understand the reasoning, though. I feel you could've cited your sources better, though.


I couldn't agree more; 2.5 years was WAY too long of a wait, especially for a portable.

Also, thank you for the criticism. I viewed most of the stuff in the editorial (besides the Miyamoto bit) to be common knowledge, and I specifically did not want to advertise Seger's biased review.


2.5 years? It's been 8 years since TTYD and 5 years since SPM (some people don't count that one though).

I could easily forgive an occasional flub if there games weren't so rare. Whatever happened to a new PM every 3 years?
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#5ckfy63a(Topic Creator)Posted 2/17/2013 4:27:32 PM
Czar_Yoshi posted...
ckfy63a posted...
PT_Piranha posted...
As much as I liked the game too, I think the biggest problem was the execution and with the long wait between announcement and release (which allowed a lot of hype).

I can understand the reasoning, though. I feel you could've cited your sources better, though.


I couldn't agree more; 2.5 years was WAY too long of a wait, especially for a portable.

Also, thank you for the criticism. I viewed most of the stuff in the editorial (besides the Miyamoto bit) to be common knowledge, and I specifically did not want to advertise Seger's biased review.


2.5 years? It's been 8 years since TTYD and 5 years since SPM (some people don't count that one though).

I could easily forgive an occasional flub if there games weren't so rare. Whatever happened to a new PM every 3 years?


I meant 2.5 years from announcement in June 2010 to release in November 2012.

Also, I think a Paper Mario every three years was never a pattern; rather, it was one Paper Mario per console. Since the developers knew Wii U would take a while, they released Sticker Star. That's my take.
#6DMZappPosted 2/17/2013 11:02:52 PM
Here's my take on your take, Jace...

I gave this game a fair chance. I showed no bias whatsoever in it doing new things, for I am a primary fan of Super Paper Mario. It failed to impress me, even though I tried treating the game as its own thing.

First off, the story. When the stories of an RPG series are held to high standards, one makes sure they stay in high standards, regardless of whether or not it's handheld or console. I knew the story was going to be SIMPLER, but I find it awful that it was half-butted. The game didn't have many unique characters to talk to that would only be associated with this game, and there was little build-up to bosses. There's no way adding a little more story would have eaten up enough of the game's budget, or what was left of it.

The "bite size" explanation is ruined by the fact that these levels can take half an hour, which isn't, in my mind, the definition of bit-sized- and that's not even getting into leaving the levels to find the right Thing. Most importantly of all, Nintendo had two Mario platformers on the 3DS already that offered small game stretches- why develop a third game of such a kind?

Also, the reason we're mad at Miyamoto for crippling the story is because he has pulled this "no story" stunt twice before with Mario Galaxy 2 and New Bros. Wii. At that time, we were willing to cut him some slack, but with this RPG, the genre that emphasizes story, no matter the platform, it shows that he's developing a bad habit that's malignantly affecting games, and it needs to be nipped in the bud.

Also, the achievements are optional. All of them. So how does that make battling mandatory for the game part of the game? Answer: it doesn't except for those achievements. There should have been a third immediate factor besides coins and stickers to fighting enemies, OR the enemies should have given out more coins in exchange for cutting out the end-of-level coin bonuses. That way, battles suddenly become necessary for buying Stickers and Things.

Also, even when using imagination, some Paperize Zones still didn't take certain stickers, or required one sticker only found in a part of the game advertised by the game itself to be optional. Congrats that you beat the game without a guide, but don't you dare insult others and claim they lack imagination. . Whose fault is it- the players who couldn't find the answer, or the game that didn't bother to give enough clues or wasn't lenient enough with its special item system (the Things)? Not giving clues doesn't emphasize a game's silliness- it just makes the game look more half-butted.

Wouldn't it have been better if the required Things were unavoidable during the game, which only happens twice in the game with the fan and faucet (ex the scissors are blocking the road the first time through 1-1, the sponge is gigantic and blocking the way to the Comet Piece in 3-9, the Bat is blocking the door to the final room in 2-3)? That way, the player always has the Things they need.

Tell me, wouldn't it have been a better design choice if the player could use Things infinitely on the field for free and could be regenerated in battle after use for a price? That way, even if incorrect in usage, the player isn't mucked, and are less frustrated.

And the General White quest example fails because that quest gave you the info you needed BEFORE doing the next part of the quest, while this game has the player going to the area without giving clues until you're there, and if you don't have the right thing, then you have to scour the world in unrelated levels and repaperize or rebuy them. Which one sounds less frustrating? My point is, a well designed game cuts the quirks and gives what the player needs unavoidably before the level or in the level itself, while a poorly-designed game wastes time.

Music and localization were good. That's all.
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#7Bass50Posted 2/18/2013 12:43:35 AM
ckfy63a posted...
Hi everyone. My name is Jason; I've been playing Mario RPG's since 1999 when I received Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars for my birthday. I've loved every single one. I prepared a very, very long post (1630 words...) about why I think people are being unfair towards Sticker Star, and it is too long to be posted here...as such, I made a Google Document for it, and I urge you all to check it out, and let me know your thoughts on this and on the game itself. Thanks.

I wrote this because of all the rude comments I've been seeing about Shiggy Miyamoto's involvement in Sticker Star, and also because of all of the unfair, biased reviews of the game.

Thanks. Please give it a read.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/136f3_-DToiNJ2UiQPYEw97aNu0DzgJlNl3z2XfVt67c/edit


So your essay, summed up is pretty much "everyone who dislikes this game for legitimate reasons and recognizes that Miyamoto's 'no story' suggestion was partly to blame for it's failure to live up to it's predecessors should feel bad because they're just haters. Oh, portability is totally an excuse for a game to be lackluster, too"?

First off, writing a well worded essay on how everyone who has a legitimate complaint or five about the game are being unfair and unbiased doesn't excuse you from being lumped in with the fanboys who blindly defend the game; especially since you're willing to do the same by labeling everyone who complains "unfair and biased".

Secondly, being on a portable system is not an excuse and never will be, unless it involves the quality of the graphics or music or maybe the length of the game(though there are a crapton of portable games that are longer than SS, better too.). Any RPG with a quicksave feature can be played in bite sized chunks, courtesy of the quicksave feature; unless you're in the middle of a battle. Every Final Fantasy and Dragon quest game for the GBA and DS have this feature. Oh, Dragon Quest VII, one of the longest games in the series is being remade for the 3DS, too. It'll most likely have a quicksave feature. So, Sticker Star can't really stand on the portable excuse, can it?

Thirdly, was there a point to this topic other than presenting an essay on why everybody with legitimate complaints about the game are nothing more than unfair, biased haters?
#8john_the_IIIPosted 2/18/2013 1:54:59 AM
I agree with the guy before me, you did a good job making yourself sound like a fanboy, why can't sticker star have a story or new characters, but mario and luigi games can?; I didn't think it was very humorous and silly when I had to wander around aimlessly trying to find the sticker I needed because kersti, who is the games hint system, gives you no hints whatsoever
#9ckfy63a(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2013 9:12:43 AM
DMZapp: Thank you for your reply. A lot of your criticisms are valid, but I just have two aspects to address in my rejoinder:

1. Miyamoto did not outright *tell* the game developers that story should not be emphasized. He suggested it. Yes, I know Miyamoto carries a lot of weight, but Intelligent Systems is a second-party developer that doesn't take direct orders from Miyamoto.

2. Honestly, it is a little bit of both the fault of the designer and of the lack of creativity on the gamer's part. The Paper Mario series is known for silly humor. Reviewers shouldn't deduct points because they didn't get the puzzle on their first try. My point still stands as my opinion.

Bass50: Way to take my statements out of context! Kudos! The real gist of my essay is more like this:

Many of the reviewers who dislike this game for spotty, vague, biased reasons and use Miyamoto's suggestion as an excuse for some of the game's faults have biased and unfair reviews (at least for this game). No, I don't believe portable games are lackluster to console counterparts, I just believe that they are meant to be different experiences.

Actually, I believe quite the opposite. By writing an essay, I gave everyone my credentials as well as LOGICAL SUPPORT for my ideas. No one is forcing you to agree. I just ask that everyone respects my opinion, as I am trying to respect yours.

Paper Mario is not your conventional RPG. As the developers said, it is more of a "Sticker Battle Adventure." I personally believe that story and long quests are elements that should be reserved for console games. Once again, that's my opinion.

No. The point of my essay was to call those people out who believed that Mr. Miyamoto single-handedly ruined Paper Mario and also to expose some reviewers for being biased and being influenced by past games in the series.

You have to understand, Bass50, I was eagerly waiting for this game since it was announced at E3 2010. I wanted to see King Monty Mole, Chain Chomp Partner, and Whomp's House of Cards (see beta screenshots/demo) as much as you did. I just think that people did not give the game a fair shot. Also, Miyamoto has even said himself that he is trying to curb his influence in games in which he is not a major part of. We'll see. I also want to add that, even at E3 2010, the game seemed to have a sticker interface (see: http://www.mariowiki.com/images/8/8a/GoombaPM3DS.PNG). So a lot of your guys' complaints would still be here if Miyamoto hadn't given a SUGGESTION.

john_the_III: Why can M&L games have new characters? Well, to be honest with you, I always thought M&L owned the portable scene regarding Mario RPG's. But for whatever reason, we got PM: SS on the 3DS.
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Let me be very clear that I am NOT a fanboy of PM: SS. I know it has its faults. I'd probably give it around 8/10, and I've scored every other Paper Mario game at least an 8.5 (keep in mind this is MY biased scale, you may disagree). Every game does, to an extent. But I think that we need to treat the game as it's own thing, as it is very different from the other Paper Mario games. I wrote this essay for two purposes: (1) to reminisce throughout the Mario RPG's over the years and (2) because of john_the_III's post:

"IS has a chance to return paper Mario to it's former glory by making a paper Mario game
for the Wii u that is nothing like the crap we got in sticker star, and hopefully miyamoto will stay out of this one."

Talk about fanboy! You are obviously a fanboy of the first two Paper Mario games. That is fine. I think we're all fanboys to some extent.
#10LUlGIPosted 2/18/2013 9:59:43 AM
From: ckfy63a | #009
So a lot of your guys' complaints would still be here if Miyamoto hadn't given a SUGGESTION.

No one really cares about whether or not the stickers were going to be in the game. I had no problem with the beta pictures when they were first revealed. I DID however dislike the way they were implemented after seeing the trailers.
Plus, that pic also shows us some classic Paper Mario elements like the stage and the partner.