On Paper Mario Sticker Star

#101ClassyOldHatPosted 2/19/2013 9:53:28 PM
ckfy63a posted...
wiiking96 posted...
ckfy63a posted...
I see your logic, but my point is that we already had a Paper Mario game for the 64 and for the GCN; thus, it would seem stale on the 3DS with the same caliber.

That makes no freaking sense. According to you, reducing the quality of a successor is necessary to keep it fresh.


I can't seem to find the right wording to get my point across...let me try this.

Nintendo's motto is "dokusou", or "create something unique." Throughout their history, they have always tried to make experiences on their machines that no other machine could capture. They attempt to make different experiences to suit the times. In a time in which portable gaming is becoming bite-sized with iOS, Android, etc., it is important to follow suit with a simpler (not necessarily worse) form of gameplay. Sticker Star offers that: it replaces the sometimes complex RPG system with a simpler sticker system. That simplifies the game to meet current portable gaming trends.

Does that make more sense?


It makes sense, but it strikes me as a poor justification. As has been pointed out before, a lot of more-than-bite-sized games (by what I assume your definition of it is; low story emphasis, short areas, etc.) have been developed for/ported to handheld systems, even for the aforementioned iOS and Android.

I also find the idea of the Sticker system being less complex than the previous game's systems to be arguable. The other games pretty much only asked for a basic knowledge of addition and subtraction to figure out how things worked.

The simplicity argument is also damaged by Things. If they were infinite-use items restricted in battle simply by some FP or SP mechanic, like the boot and hammer upgrades in TTYD, then that would be elegantly simple. But as they are, disappearing after only a single use, most players would be very hesitant to use them unless they were absolutely sure they needed to, in or out of combat, because of the high time cost in backtracking for a Thing, or saving up coins to buy it.

As others have mentioned, not all the solutions are obvious, even to those with imagination, and many puzzles seem like they could have multiple solutions, but do not. Getting the wrong solution means you wasted a sticker and will now have to farm it again if you think you'll need it for a later boss or puzzle. And this is before we come to the fact that a number of vital stickers are easy to miss. Compare this to the hammer, boots, and partners in TTYD and 64: if one solution seems like it should work, but doesn't, you can easily try another move or partner, and have only lost a few seconds, and you still have their combat applications. Which sounds simpler... Or at the very least, less tedious?
#102ckfy63a(Topic Creator)Posted 2/19/2013 10:06:12 PM
ClassyOldHat posted...
ckfy63a posted...
wiiking96 posted...
ckfy63a posted...
I see your logic, but my point is that we already had a Paper Mario game for the 64 and for the GCN; thus, it would seem stale on the 3DS with the same caliber.

That makes no freaking sense. According to you, reducing the quality of a successor is necessary to keep it fresh.


I can't seem to find the right wording to get my point across...let me try this.

Nintendo's motto is "dokusou", or "create something unique." Throughout their history, they have always tried to make experiences on their machines that no other machine could capture. They attempt to make different experiences to suit the times. In a time in which portable gaming is becoming bite-sized with iOS, Android, etc., it is important to follow suit with a simpler (not necessarily worse) form of gameplay. Sticker Star offers that: it replaces the sometimes complex RPG system with a simpler sticker system. That simplifies the game to meet current portable gaming trends.

Does that make more sense?


It makes sense, but it strikes me as a poor justification. As has been pointed out before, a lot of more-than-bite-sized games (by what I assume your definition of it is; low story emphasis, short areas, etc.) have been developed for/ported to handheld systems, even for the aforementioned iOS and Android.

I also find the idea of the Sticker system being less complex than the previous game's systems to be arguable. The other games pretty much only asked for a basic knowledge of addition and subtraction to figure out how things worked.

The simplicity argument is also damaged by Things. If they were infinite-use items restricted in battle simply by some FP or SP mechanic, like the boot and hammer upgrades in TTYD, then that would be elegantly simple. But as they are, disappearing after only a single use, most players would be very hesitant to use them unless they were absolutely sure they needed to, in or out of combat, because of the high time cost in backtracking for a Thing, or saving up coins to buy it.

As others have mentioned, not all the solutions are obvious, even to those with imagination, and many puzzles seem like they could have multiple solutions, but do not. Getting the wrong solution means you wasted a sticker and will now have to farm it again if you think you'll need it for a later boss or puzzle. And this is before we come to the fact that a number of vital stickers are easy to miss. Compare this to the hammer, boots, and partners in TTYD and 64: if one solution seems like it should work, but doesn't, you can easily try another move or partner, and have only lost a few seconds, and you still have their combat applications. Which sounds simpler... Or at the very least, less tedious?


You make some very valid points; however, the Thing Repurchase Shops throughout the game help to remedy the problem of backtracking to a level that the player may or may not remember. Although, I can see how it would be tedious to have to continually backtrack...point taken.

When I said less complex, I guess I meant "more suited for portable." Once again, a poor choice of words on my part. I think the whole touch-your-sticker interface was something that was made for the dual screen 3DS (something that would look interesting on Wii U).

Honestly, I think the developers just wanted to shake up the series again...they knew fans didn't like SPM, and they (I think) didn't want to go back to the traditional RPG. So they tried something else. Hopefully we'll get an overall more universally-liked game for Wii U. If they improve sticker mechanics as well as Thing semantics, I think the GamePad would be perfect for stickers. But we'll see.
#103Bass50Posted 2/19/2013 10:34:06 PM
ckfy63a posted...
You make some very valid points; however, the Thing Repurchase Shops throughout the game help to remedy the problem of backtracking to a level that the player may or may not remember. Although, I can see how it would be tedious to have to continually backtrack...point taken.


Funny, I pointed that out and it was ignored, completely.

ckfy63a posted...
When I said less complex, I guess I meant "more suited for portable." Once again, a poor choice of words on my part. I think the whole touch-your-sticker interface was something that was made for the dual screen 3DS (something that would look interesting on Wii U).


Now this is actually phrased in a way that's clear and to the point, kudos on that. If we're talking about a how a game is more suited for a portable based on the gameplay and controls, then I can actually see your point(finally!).

ckfy63a posted...
Honestly, I think the developers just wanted to shake up the series again...they knew fans didn't like SPM, and they (I think) didn't want to go back to the traditional RPG. So they tried something else. Hopefully we'll get an overall more universally-liked game for Wii U. If they improve sticker mechanics as well as Thing semantics, I think the GamePad would be perfect for stickers. But we'll see.


Holy-I actually agree with this. That doesn't excuse SS from flubbing it up, especially when SPM did a decent job with a genre shift, I can still see a valid point here. Though honestly, if another title tries something new, it'd probably do better by bring back some of the old and tweaking it to work in conjunction with the new. Also, if the sticker mechanic is used again, it needs to be reworked as well as the battle system. I don't think it'd be a bad thing to tie album upgrades and life ups for Mario to a point system linked to battles. As for partners(yes, they really need to bring them back) the super/ultra upgrades work for this.

Honestly, if the things were handled better and life and album upgrades were tied to battles, as well as a better story, the game would have seemed a lot less tedious and most likely wouldn't be slammed with so many complaints. In fact, it would have been pretty good. But, it wasn't and while it has it's moments(Snifit or Whiffit was pure gold) it just falls short of what it could have been.
#104PT_PiranhaPosted 2/19/2013 10:35:22 PM
This thread's really come a long way. Maybe with some luck, it'll become the designated argument thread and the rest of the board can be relatively civil again.
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OH. BANANA.
"Mints make me lonely."
#105john_the_IIIPosted 2/20/2013 12:11:07 AM
Wow, I stopped taking you seriously when you started desperately stretching your argument with bass and contradicting yourself
#106ckfy63a(Topic Creator)Posted 2/20/2013 7:15:34 PM
Bass50 posted...
ckfy63a posted...
You make some very valid points; however, the Thing Repurchase Shops throughout the game help to remedy the problem of backtracking to a level that the player may or may not remember. Although, I can see how it would be tedious to have to continually backtrack...point taken.


Funny, I pointed that out and it was ignored, completely.

ckfy63a posted...
When I said less complex, I guess I meant "more suited for portable." Once again, a poor choice of words on my part. I think the whole touch-your-sticker interface was something that was made for the dual screen 3DS (something that would look interesting on Wii U).


Now this is actually phrased in a way that's clear and to the point, kudos on that. If we're talking about a how a game is more suited for a portable based on the gameplay and controls, then I can actually see your point(finally!).

ckfy63a posted...
Honestly, I think the developers just wanted to shake up the series again...they knew fans didn't like SPM, and they (I think) didn't want to go back to the traditional RPG. So they tried something else. Hopefully we'll get an overall more universally-liked game for Wii U. If they improve sticker mechanics as well as Thing semantics, I think the GamePad would be perfect for stickers. But we'll see.


Holy-I actually agree with this. That doesn't excuse SS from flubbing it up, especially when SPM did a decent job with a genre shift, I can still see a valid point here. Though honestly, if another title tries something new, it'd probably do better by bring back some of the old and tweaking it to work in conjunction with the new. Also, if the sticker mechanic is used again, it needs to be reworked as well as the battle system. I don't think it'd be a bad thing to tie album upgrades and life ups for Mario to a point system linked to battles. As for partners(yes, they really need to bring them back) the super/ultra upgrades work for this.

Honestly, if the things were handled better and life and album upgrades were tied to battles, as well as a better story, the game would have seemed a lot less tedious and most likely wouldn't be slammed with so many complaints. In fact, it would have been pretty good. But, it wasn't and while it has it's moments(Snifit or Whiffit was pure gold) it just falls short of what it could have been.


Thanks for responding.

I think what started all of this was your original post on this thread. I felt so bombarded with all of your contradictions of my essay (which I know is not God's word, but it is my initial argument, so I was referring to it as such). I got a tad too defensive and the thread became what it was. But I am sorry. It seems to be a lot calmer and more constructive now.
#107LonelyGoombaPosted 2/20/2013 8:07:14 PM
is this still going?
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Watch my video's please...or else...
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheLonelyGoomba
#108ckfy63a(Topic Creator)Posted 2/20/2013 9:24:28 PM
LonelyGoomba posted...
is this still going?


You act surprised...as far as I can tell, I've gotten a lot more civilized with you all.

By the way, I want to apologize for the comments I made against you earlier. Although I was a bit offended by the terrorist bit, it's nothing compared to some of the portrayals that Muslims get in mainstream media...sorry.