So what exactly did Miyamoto DO to ruin this game?

#11wiiking96Posted 2/28/2013 6:12:28 AM
Master_Gamer posted...
I miss some of the story, but Super Paper Mario got really goddamned wordy at points with just exposition and boring ****, which even the other two games were guilty of at a few points. Like, there's still quite a bit wrong with the game even disregarding Miyamoto's interference, but it's still fun and charming, two things that every negative review implied if not outright stated were nonexistent. Hell, I think this a better game than the first Paper Mario. And considering the massive improvements from PM to TTYD Sticker Star 2's probably gonna be the best Mario RPG around.

Definitely not. Sticker Star, even ignoring the lack of story and characters, is the most objectively flawed and shallow Mario RPG to date.
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#12Master_GamerPosted 2/28/2013 6:54:26 AM
Yeah, how about you try elaborating, champ? Here, I'll start:

IMHO, Paper Mario 1 wasn't very good. At all. The localization is borderline soulless without the phenomenal localization efforts nearly every other Nintendo game with significant amounts of text go, so the huge amount of dialogue it has over the game is a moot point. It takes like three hours to do timed commands, which in and of itself is unacceptable. Partners aren't real party members. Guarding feels pointless without superguarding, status ailment immunity, or halving damage like this game does. The game in general lacks the smooth feel of every Mario RPG since. I guess to be concise, the battles felt like a slog after all the **** TTYD did to improve them, and the characters lacked the spark TTYD's localization added.

I mean, it's not a bad game, but it wasn't very charming, again IMO. This game doesn't have as much dialogue as the other games, but I don't understand how anyone can clam it has no soul at all when there are lots of charming moments and the paper aesthetic is well used compared to PM1, where it might as well have not existed at all.
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#13Chaosmaster00Posted 2/28/2013 1:32:27 PM
Charmander, Char(m)!

Sorry, I'm quick to notice when a word is used to oblivion.
#14Bass50Posted 2/28/2013 8:12:32 PM
McmadnessV3 posted...
You know, even with these restrictions there are still plenty more they could have done with this game.


While that's true, the game was delayed multiple times because iS freaked out and felt the need to heed his suggestions to the letter. By the time they "fixed" everything, there probably wasn't much time left to make anymore changes or additions.
#15McmadnessV3Posted 2/28/2013 8:22:38 PM
Bass50 posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
You know, even with these restrictions there are still plenty more they could have done with this game.


While that's true, the game was delayed multiple times because iS freaked out and felt the need to heed his suggestions to the letter. By the time they "fixed" everything, there probably wasn't much time left to make anymore changes or additions.


Thats still IS's fault.
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#16Bass50Posted 2/28/2013 9:38:04 PM
McmadnessV3 posted...
Bass50 posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
You know, even with these restrictions there are still plenty more they could have done with this game.


While that's true, the game was delayed multiple times because iS freaked out and felt the need to heed his suggestions to the letter. By the time they "fixed" everything, there probably wasn't much time left to make anymore changes or additions.


Thats still IS's fault.


Maybe a little, but they don't control the release dates, they're a dev team within the bigger company, the company that sets the release dates. The game was already delayed multiple times, of course the parent company is going to want it released as soon as it's playable. There are many cases of games being rushed because the parent company is tired of pushing back the release, many of them wind up needing to be patched because they're full of bugs. This just happens to be one of the cases where the parent company waited until the game was playable before pushing it out the door. If it had been delayed further, more changes and additions could have been made to make it better, but dev teams can't really do much once the higher ups demand a release.
#17Pikablu45Posted 3/3/2013 9:53:38 PM
Don't know why he preferred to make this game into a crappy platformer. Isn't that what the Super Mario Bros series is for? He didn't need to ruin this great game. He already wrecked it with SPM. He thinks it's ingenious to go for the mass market of casual gamers. Well - well done Miyamoto...you've made such a car crash game that not even they're going to buy it.
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#18Czar_YoshiPosted 3/3/2013 10:18:15 PM
Master_Gamer posted...
Yeah, how about you try elaborating, champ? Here, I'll start:

IMHO, Paper Mario 1 wasn't very good. At all. The localization is borderline soulless without the phenomenal localization efforts nearly every other Nintendo game with significant amounts of text go, so the huge amount of dialogue it has over the game is a moot point. It takes like three hours to do timed commands, which in and of itself is unacceptable. Partners aren't real party members. Guarding feels pointless without superguarding, status ailment immunity, or halving damage like this game does. The game in general lacks the smooth feel of every Mario RPG since. I guess to be concise, the battles felt like a slog after all the **** TTYD did to improve them, and the characters lacked the spark TTYD's localization added.

I mean, it's not a bad game, but it wasn't very charming, again IMO. This game doesn't have as much dialogue as the other games, but I don't understand how anyone can clam it has no soul at all when there are lots of charming moments and the paper aesthetic is well used compared to PM1, where it might as well have not existed at all.


Localization is bad = opinion.

3 hours to learn the action commands? All your fault.

What do you mean, partners aren't real party members? They fight alongside you in battle, you can upgrade them, they draw from the same pool of FP Mario does...

Guarding is actually far more important in PM64 because you have no other way to reduce the damage. And it does block status. And SS's multiplier based defense system is one of the most broken algorithms to ever be used in a published RPG, so I'd appreciate if you didn't praise it. Example: any attack that deals between 1 and 7 damage normally will deal 1 to a boss, any attack that does between 8 and 11 damage normally will do 2, etc. Now, how is that balanced when you have stickers that allow you to hit very many times in a row for many weak hits (and are easy to time)?

It seems like you're forgetting that PM64 was made 3 years before TTYD, on a technically inferior system. The games can be treated as technical equals just as much as OoT and TP can. Of course the whole system feels smoother in TTYD, that's because they worked on improving it.
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#19Pikablu45Posted 3/4/2013 8:42:25 AM
Master_Gamer posted...
Yeah, how about you try elaborating, champ? Here, I'll start:

IMHO, Paper Mario 1 wasn't very good. At all. The localization is borderline soulless without the phenomenal localization efforts nearly every other Nintendo game with significant amounts of text go, so the huge amount of dialogue it has over the game is a moot point. It takes like three hours to do timed commands, which in and of itself is unacceptable. Partners aren't real party members. Guarding feels pointless without superguarding, status ailment immunity, or halving damage like this game does. The game in general lacks the smooth feel of every Mario RPG since. I guess to be concise, the battles felt like a slog after all the **** TTYD did to improve them, and the characters lacked the spark TTYD's localization added.

I mean, it's not a bad game, but it wasn't very charming, again IMO. This game doesn't have as much dialogue as the other games, but I don't understand how anyone can clam it has no soul at all when there are lots of charming moments and the paper aesthetic is well used compared to PM1, where it might as well have not existed at all.


Agreed with everything the good Czar said above me.

PM64 not being good is strictly your opinion. Also the lack of spark and whatever other adjectives you've used to describe it is all opinion. Fact - It was the most well-received PM game to date by critics. Regarding the localizations, fact - 90% of critics enjoyed it. And when you talk about characters - don't even start because PM64's were the quirkiest and most charming of all of the party members.

How was it soulless? The game was charming in many respects. And if took you three hours to input commands in then I feel bad...for you because you clearly didn't know how to play the game. That battle system is what made PM64 and TTYD - as well as the quirky party members, badges and nice story. TTYD was simply an improvement on that existing formula.
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#20MagnemightPosted 3/4/2013 10:10:40 PM
Pikablu45 posted...
don't even start because PM64's were the quirkiest and most charming of all of the party members.


I don't mean to disagree with anything else you've been saying, but are the party members in 64 at all interesting? Perhaps I'm just too adjusted to Thousand Year Door, but I find it rather odd how the party members rarely ever speak beyond their initial recruitment.

And even then, some party members barely had any personality in the first place. Does Goombario have any character traits? Kooper, Bombette, and Watt were limited to around one scene of characterization, with Lakilester and Bow being the only partners with any...well, quirkiness.

...Granted, they're a darn sight better than the Pixls/no partners at all, though SPM made up for it by giving Peach, Bowser, and Luigi quite a few good quirks.