So what exactly did Miyamoto DO to ruin this game?

#31avengahPosted 3/5/2013 6:20:00 PM(edited)
Oh, please. You took me literally AGAIN. I know what the fans want; I would have enjoyed a game similar to TTYD too. But I didn't literally mean rehash; it was a figure of speech and I used the word because the previous poster used it. Pretend I said "game in a similar style to TTYD" instead of rehash. Also, don't assume that every single fan wants the exact same thing. Some Paper Mario fans cite Super Paper Mario as their favourite game. These people will naturally feel differently about things than someone who loved the original PM more than all its sequels. The fanbase is not a hive mind.

I like the game; it's fun and I enjoy the puzzles and battles. It could have been even better, with a decent story and other additions. What's so hard about my stance to grasp?

And I see many of the same posters on both boards. A lot of people will have played both games and seen the controversy, so they'll know what I was talking about regarding people calling NSMB2 a romhack. It's not different fanbases at all; many people have bought both games. Some of these people complain that NSMB2 is too similar (what did they honestly expect?!?), but that PM:SS is too different. The same people in some cases. I've seen Mariofan15 and SpunkySix on both boards, just as an example.
---
My Pre-Hooktail Pit Run of Paper Mario: TTYD without Mega Rush P!
Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5045EE00B4B9581F
#32avengahPosted 3/5/2013 6:28:44 PM
And I absolutely LOVE TTYD, and know a hell of a lot about it, as anyone who's seen my pit run knows. But I enjoy all four games. I actually played the original after TTYD, and even though battle mechanics were simpler, it felt fresh to me as it was a little different. I've also completed SPM a few times and done pre 2-2 and pre 5-3 pit runs in it. I also worked out some different recipe combinations (check the SPM board if you're interested). So I have plenty of experience with all the games and do know what I'm talking about.
---
My Pre-Hooktail Pit Run of Paper Mario: TTYD without Mega Rush P!
Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5045EE00B4B9581F
#33Mariofan15Posted 3/5/2013 7:05:37 PM
From: avengah | #031
Oh, please. You took me literally AGAIN. I know what the fans want; I would have enjoyed a game similar to TTYD too. But I didn't literally mean rehash; it was a figure of speech and I used the word because the previous poster used it. Pretend I said "game in a similar style to TTYD" instead of rehash. Also, don't assume that every single fan wants the exact same thing. Some Paper Mario fans cite Super Paper Mario as their favourite game. These people will naturally feel differently about things than someone who loved the original PM more than all its sequels. The fanbase is not a hive mind.

I like the game; it's fun and I enjoy the puzzles and battles. It could have been even better, with a decent story and other additions. What's so hard about my stance to grasp?

And I see many of the same posters on both boards. A lot of people will have played both games and seen the controversy, so they'll know what I was talking about regarding people calling NSMB2 a romhack. It's not different fanbases at all; many people have bought both games. Some of these people complain that NSMB2 is too similar (what did they honestly expect?!?), but that PM:SS is too different. The same people in some cases. I've seen Mariofan15 and SpunkySix on both boards, just as an example.


No,you dont. Now quit acting like you do.
---
Pokemon White 2 FC:0691-4768-6135
#34DMZappPosted 3/7/2013 1:49:06 PM(edited)
avengah posted...
And I see many of the same posters on both boards. A lot of people will have played both games and seen the controversy, so they'll know what I was talking about regarding people calling NSMB2 a romhack. It's not different fanbases at all; many people have bought both games. Some of these people complain that NSMB2 is too similar (what did they honestly expect?!?), but that PM:SS is too different. The same people in some cases. I've seen Mariofan15 and SpunkySix on both boards, just as an example.


I'm comin' in and saying that although I, too, frequented both this and NSMB2's boards and bought both (and I find NSMB2 good, but nothing really WOWZER-ing) the problem is that both games are at extremes when it comes to old and new. Not just "Uh, not much new" or "Quite a lot of new stuff here" or even the most balanced result, "old and busted new coolness". I mean like "Did these guys add anything new of substance?!" (NSMB2) and "These guys changed everything for the sake of change, not to improve the game, with not even one old thing being here" (this game and another 2012 Mario game I don't really like).

And both extreme new games have the added fatal flaws that couldn't be glimpsed from gameplay videos that the replacement mechanics were put in without thinking them out or realizing the consequences of the changes, which is what really got people startled.

The thing is, the duo share the flaw of being extreme in their past or futures, instead of balancing it out, by keeping the good things and all defining characteristics of their predecessor, kicking out or tweaking the bad stuff to appeal to some new audiences while keeping old fans on, always taking player convienience into account, and adding a gameplay hook that, while it somewhat forces the player to approach the game in a different manner, still synergizes with the old style like a shadow.

So, with Paper Mario, it would go (or should have gone) like this:
+/* a detailed story, BUT add an option to skip cutscenes for less patient players, purer Mario fans like that McMadness guy, or people who beat the game already, with something to record any game info that cutscene had
+more unique characters with unique names
+partners of some sort
+at least one funny villain (Bowser, crazy dude #3, a henchman [or woman] of the main villain, maybe even the main villain)
*less back-and-forth across entire areas
*concrete clues that jump out at player as soon as they see them, like field devices or actual obstacles requiring powers
*the solution to the problem in the area itself, not requiring trial and error, or given explicit clues as to where the solution is, rather than having to jump through unnecessary hoops
*tweak Badges in such a way to make Danger Mario impossible to rely on or not even be available in the game

...and so on. (Although it is good to hear that you played all four games, avengah.)

(ON-TOPIC) What Miyamoto did was not only make suggestions on characters and story in his "post-Galaxy Mario epiphany" mindset, thinking that it applied to every part of the Mario franchise, but the "variety of topics" mentioned at IGN, and calling the game "boring" when IS retooled the game for 2011, even after Following orders. Gee Miyamoto, maybe you should have let IS keep the old design instead of mucking around with them for a year! Yeah I'm mad.

And I'm disappointed. This game shouldn't have been divisive. I was just reading the GameFAQs topics on the game, and wow, did things go downhill.
(I see 30 topics/page)
200-121: Optimism
120-81: Skeptism
80-61: "What the Feebas happened to this game?!" AKA Release
60-1: "mi-Ya-Mo-TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" AKA Aftermath
---
Nintendo 3DS FC: 2664-2654-8959
Nothin' much, just cookin'.
#35avengahPosted 3/7/2013 3:56:14 PM
What's the other game? Is it a sport or racing game?

This isn't much, but I have noticed a black bar containing "START: Skip" appear during certain cutscenes. I can't remember exactly when, but you can skip some cutscenes - I believe it's if you've already seen them on that file.

Oh, and 50/50 posts/topics here.

(I did type all this out before, on my 3DS no less, then bloody GameFAQs goes into read-only mode!)
---
My Pre-Hooktail Pit Run of Paper Mario: TTYD without Mega Rush P!
Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5045EE00B4B9581F
#36DMZappPosted 3/7/2013 4:16:52 PM
Mario Party 9. Those dice are like kart racers- swerving placement back and forth and their discretion due to artificial programming, even in single player, where losing gives one zero points for the shop, and where progress during boards can't be suspended. That is all I will say on the matter for now.

And huh, I never knew about the START: Skip thing. I learn something every day.
---
Nintendo 3DS FC: 2664-2654-8959
Nothin' much, just cookin'.
#37LUlGIPosted 3/7/2013 5:43:56 PM
From: Chaosmaster00 | #007
Who was SSS's sidekick


Spangle?

Who the heck is Spangle
#38avengahPosted 3/7/2013 5:56:45 PM
The little starfish you carry to Hermie the crab for a rare item. He's your companion for a little while.

So, remind me since it's been so long... but what did SS use instead of a companion to give you gameplay hints like Stuffwell or Starlow? I need to replay all three M&L games.

Here in the UK, the Partners in Time bosses have less health than in the US version. I think I'd have actually preferred them with more health - some US players felt the fights dragged on too long, but I thought they were over too quickly with the reduced health... and with the brilliant boss music PiT had, I wanted a long, strategic fight! 2x Treasure Badge against Shroob Castle enemies for the win!
---
My Pre-Hooktail Pit Run of Paper Mario: TTYD without Mega Rush P!
Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5045EE00B4B9581F
#39wiiking96Posted 3/7/2013 6:07:49 PM
avengah posted...
So, remind me since it's been so long... but what did SS use instead of a companion to give you gameplay hints like Stuffwell or Starlow? I need to replay all three M&L games.

Superstar Saga didn't have a true helper like Stuffwell. Instead, various characters in the game like Prince Peasley would provide hints or direction when needed, usually when going between areas. You were otherwise alone when exploring major areas, and it was fine that way.

I kind of hope that Starlow in Dream Team is only used for Luigi prodding.
---
More villains need to be protagonists. BiS proves it can work.
Ridley, Ganondorf, Fawful, Bowser, and Dimentio all for their own games!
#40avengahPosted 3/7/2013 6:17:08 PM(edited)
Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought. Unfortunately, it seems that Nintendo have fallen in love with annoying companions like Fi. I appreciate their ability to tattle, but the Metroid Prime games had ways to tattle enemies and items without needing an irritating Captain Obvious tagging along with you.

There is an 85% chance the item you need is the other side of this door you've just unlocked. Even though you've been told twice before that it's that way!

Do you think Stuffwell, and by extension Starlow, were requested by Nintendo, or do you think they were the developer's idea? I can see Nintendo possibly saying "We need a companion, to help newer players along" etc.
---
My Pre-Hooktail Pit Run of Paper Mario: TTYD without Mega Rush P!
Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5045EE00B4B9581F