I am absolutely baffled as to how they could make this game so bad. **spoilers**

#11CopShow GuyPosted 3/5/2013 12:21:33 AM
I never found the sponge or recall getting a hint about it before my fight with World 3's boss. I just had to power through and then have Kersti tell me I did bad.

I do recall there being a hint about the large vacuum. Some Toad told me to check out the warehouses by the docks.
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#12wiiking96Posted 3/5/2013 6:25:30 AM
The fact that so many people were forced to use a guide is proof that there's something wrong about giving hints to generic Toads. IS could have at least given them something to grab a players interest, like an ! above their head.
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#13avengahPosted 3/5/2013 9:40:54 AM(edited)
Yeah, that's what they did in Skyward Sword. Any NPC that's got something worth listening to has a speech bubble, whether it be a sidequest, a hint or something else as long as it's semi-important. That's something they did right that time.

HOWEVER, no-one's FORCED to use a guide. Some people prefer to methodically check every area (think how people used to find secrets in Zelda 1) rather than give in and resort to a guide. There are always other options. The fact is that you don't have to methodically check every area for a required item usually, because clues are given to its whereabouts - something that wasn't always the case in Zelda 1, and yet it's still enjoyable - it's really satisfying, exploring the whole world map of the original Zelda and finding all those secret caves by yourself. That feeling of satisfaction is one of the main reasons I almost always go for 100% in the games I play, and if I find I have to resort to a guide, I lose that feeling and feel terrible instead. So I rarely do it. I actually wish younger gamers were more patient sometimes, instead of regularly looking things up even in relatively simple games. It seems thinking for oneself is something that's so rarely needed in modern games that some individuals have actually lost the ability to do it.

CopShow Guy: I'm not sure about the Sponge because I collected it, but I'm going to try skipping it and see if anyone gives me a hint. I'm going to skip as much as possible next time through; I think even the Tap can be skipped at first, due to being able to do 1-5 instead of 1-4, and if I reach a road block such as 2-4, I'll move on to World 3 for the time being. I'll get as far as I can in each world collecting the bare minimum and see what hints are given.
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#14Master_GamerPosted 3/5/2013 8:52:07 PM
wiiking96 posted...
The problem with hints from Toads is that they look so uninteresting that few people will bother with talking to them, and out of those few people, few will pay serious attention to what they have to say because they won't know that Toads give hints. I sure didn't, and you can't blame me; the Toads are dull.


It's a ****ing RPG/adventure game hybrid. Unless you're eight years old and this is your first introduction to either genre, the genre itself makes it obvious that you should be talking to every NPC you can. And the manual tells you that Toads give hints and advice. Saying they're dull doesn't even work when their dialogue is still better than 95% of jRPG NPCs who serve the same purpose.
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#15MagnemightPosted 3/5/2013 9:40:48 PM
Master_Gamer posted...

It's a ****ing RPG/adventure game hybrid. Unless you're eight years old and this is your first introduction to either genre, the genre itself makes it obvious that you should be talking to every NPC you can. And the manual tells you that Toads give hints and advice. Saying they're dull doesn't even work when their dialogue is still better than 95% of jRPG NPCs who serve the same purpose.


The only problem I have with that logic is the fact that the Toads are located in Decalburg, not in the worlds where the problem exists. All three prior Paper Mario games had hubs, as well as the second Mario & Luigi RPG, but none of them ever required revisiting once a chapter had begun.

...But on the topic of required Things, do any of the Toads ever hint at the location of the Light Bulb? I ended up going through all of World 1 and 2 and using all the Secret Doors in an attempt to get different light-producing Things before giving up and turning to a guide.
#16Czar_YoshiPosted 3/5/2013 11:24:56 PM
avengah posted...
Case 4: In 3-10, refuse the final part of the stage. You'll be told: "You'll be REALLY glad to have it in a cold place, and stuck if you don't. You know what I mean?"


I've mentioned numerous times that I accepted the bonus stage (like any decent RPG player would do), got the thing, used it on the snow cone, and when it failed I figured it must be so weak there was absolutely no point in trying it on the bigger snow drift. Where's the hint for that?


All else aside, though, I agree with PT. The game is just... There's not much there to talk about and all that can be said (for both sides) has been said. Now it's just people repeating themselves and others, and people whining (both sides do both of these). There's a good reason I'm not as active here as I used to be, and it's that. Well, aside from the fact that I now have better things to do with my time.
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"it's that game that is so great it makes you want to destroy your Toilet." -Throwback2780
#17avengahPosted 3/6/2013 5:30:50 AM(edited)
The Light Bulb is hinted at by a Toad outside the eastern house in Decalburg. He appears when you complete 2-1. He disappears when you've collected the Light Bulb and the Baseball Bat (his next hint). If you're filling up the Museum and using the shop / Thing flinging place, you'll be coming back to Decalburg regularly enough.

The game didn't tell you the radiator was too weak; you incorrectly decided that yourself. You can't expect the game to know you were going to come to that conclusion. However, there are still only four heat-based Things available at that time, so even if you tried all of them and maybe several types of Fire Flower and Burnhammer, that's still not very many that would realistically work. And I copied my file before trying.

There is a hint you may remember from near the start of the game. The first time you saw a big paperisation zone, e.g. Surfshine or 1-4, Kersti would have commented on not having seen one like that before, and how it must be for a special kind of sticker she doesn't know about. And when you get the Scissors sticker for the first time, it's a rare sticker type she's never seen before. In 3-1, the small Trumpet goes into a big box, as do all Thing stickers. There were plenty of clues really.
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My Pre-Hooktail Pit Run of Paper Mario: TTYD without Mega Rush P!
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#18Czar_YoshiPosted 3/7/2013 1:14:59 AM
avengah posted...
The game didn't tell you the radiator was too weak; you incorrectly decided that yourself. You can't expect the game to know you were going to come to that conclusion.


What? Incorrectly? No, if A < B and B < C, then A < C. It's a universal law of logic, there's nothing incorrect about my reasoning. If a heat based thing is too weak to melt a small amount of snow, it's too weak to melt a large amount of snow. And besides, even then it's a small thing, why should it work when medium heat-based things don't work?

The game's logic is in error, not mine.
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"it's that game that is so great it makes you want to destroy your Toilet." -Throwback2780
#19arvilinoPosted 3/7/2013 3:29:14 AM(edited)
Czar_Yoshi posted...
avengah posted...
The game didn't tell you the radiator was too weak; you incorrectly decided that yourself. You can't expect the game to know you were going to come to that conclusion.


What? Incorrectly? No, if A < B and B < C, then A < C. It's a universal law of logic, there's nothing incorrect about my reasoning. If a heat based thing is too weak to melt a small amount of snow, it's too weak to melt a large amount of snow. And besides, even then it's a small thing, why should it work when medium heat-based things don't work?

The game's logic is in error, not mine.


I thought the thing with the Radiator is that with the situation you use it for there's some where to place it, with the ice cream cone, you have to place the sticker inside the snow. Your logic only works when you remove situational context.
#20vejetaPosted 3/7/2013 9:54:38 AM
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