Okay, that was a bit uncalled for? Spoilers, I guess.

#1CVNut13Posted 3/14/2013 4:50:26 PM
So I bought the game for twenty back when it was on sale and only recently did I start it up and play it. I honestly really like it, regardless of it being worlds different than from Thousand Year Door (which was my first Paper Mario). I like to think of it as “Paper Mario Handheld” which is essentially what it is; It’s like the Chain of Memories to the Kingdom Hearts series.

However, my gripe with it so far has to have been with the first boss. I was already introduced to the Scissor sticker (and how cheap it came off to be), and from there on I promised not to use any of the item stickers unless the game absolutely called for it. So anyways, I made it onto the first boss and I’m expecting an alright fight.

Okay wow, no. This guy’s defense is ridiculous, but regardless I managed to defeat him (even after poisoning myself on accident..) Kersti pops up and here I’m expecting some cute banter or a “Way to go!”
Instead I get a “hey, you wasted a lot of stickers. Good job, lol.” And that’s it, that’s literally all that happens.

I don’t understand. The game wants me to use the gamebreaking stickers? I thought those were the equivalent of the P Wing in Super Mario 3D Land? This is literally the only gripe I have with the game so far (currently on World 2) but wow, I never thought the game would outright insult you for not using something so cheap. s: Especially a Mario game.
#2MagnemightPosted 3/14/2013 5:06:24 PM
It is a bit silly that the game insults you for powering through using naught but your skills, but it does say so for a reason.

Thing is, the Thing stickers aren't really P-Wings. Remember how you used the Fan to get that windmill to move? After the first world, the game is chock-full of situations where you absolutely need a Thing to progress, bosses and minibosses included. The bosses aren't meant to be tests of combat skill, as in the previous Paper Mario games, but puzzles in themselves. Incidentally, if you encounter a fight in which none of your attacks work, you can always flee the fight, even boss battles. To add to the puzzle element, some boss battles want you to wait for the appropriate time to use the correct thing, so one really does have to be careful. The Scissors would have done FAR more damage than they normally would to the first boss if you used them when the boss's segments were flipping around, but it wouldn't have been too useful if you used them before that point. The same for all Things, actually; if it's the wrong Thing or at the wrong time, it won't do too much damage and still be affected by that massive defense boost.

The game isn't encouraging you to spam superweapons, it's encouraging you to use the single appropriate superweapon at the appropriate time to hit the boss's weak point. And if you don't manage to figure it out (and remember, you can run from a fight and stickerize your guesses and come back if you don't think you've got the solution) you can get your rear end handed to you.
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#3Bass50Posted 3/14/2013 7:40:51 PM
Magnemight posted...
The game isn't encouraging you to spam superweapons, it's encouraging you to use the single appropriate superweapon at the appropriate time to hit the boss's weak point. And if you don't manage to figure it out (and remember, you can run from a fight and stickerize your guesses and come back if you don't think you've got the solution) you can get your rear end handed to you.


And this is one of the problems with this game. In any game resembling an RPG, anything that can be considered a superweapon is usually hard to obtain and completely unnecessary for completing the game. That uber powerful sword that has stat boosts out the wazoo? Ya gotta go through three optional dungeons and a boss that makes the final boss look like a wimp to get it. It's use? Playing through the New Game+ and feeling like a badass when every enemy and many of the bosses are wiped out in one hit, so purely for ***** and giggles and maybe a speed run that may net you that super armor.

Having a bunch of uber weapons readily available just to make the bosses easier to handle(sometimes too easy) makes the game seem like it's overcompensating by relying on some flashy battle attacks to make players 'ooh' and 'ahh'. The fact that a character in the game is programmed to chide you for not finding and/or using said uber weapon just makes it worse.
#4Czar_YoshiPosted 3/15/2013 1:43:44 AM
CVNut13 posted...
Okay wow, no. This guy’s defense is ridiculous


Not ridiculous, poorly designed. Boss defense divides by 4 and rounds down- but the only times in the game where attacks can do 0 damage are in world 1 because plot armor and the game wants to teach you something.

So, any sticker dealing between 7 and 1 damage will hit the boss for 1 damage, 8-11 = 2 damage, etc. Even if you fling one of those rare, valuable megaflash stickers at it, it's still going to take a pittance- unless you use a hopslipper, which does a full 10 damage. Any kind of hopslipper does that much, so upgrading them is completely pointless. Hence all bosses become boring spamfests if you don't have the right sticker, and, quite frankly, it's a lot more of a hassle for me to head into a level and go, "Hmm, I wonder what the boss's weakness will be" and somehow pack the correct sticker than it is to pack 30 hopslippers and call it done (yes, every boss but 1, 4, and Bowser has 300HP).
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#5avengahPosted 3/15/2013 5:51:54 AM(edited)
Try using a Hopslipper on a Boomerang Bro. It'll do 0 damage, 10 times. This is because it has 2 subtracting defence.

Boss defence is either /2 or /4, depending on the boss and the phase. During a /2 phase, you could use the more powerful Hopslippers and they'd actually have an effect.
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#6wiiking96Posted 3/15/2013 6:57:39 AM
avengah posted...
Try using a Hopslipper on a Boomerang Bro. It'll do 0 damage, 10 times. This is because it has 2 subtracting defence.

Boss defence is either /2 or /4, depending on the boss and the phase. During a /2 phase, you could use the more powerful Hopslippers and they'd actually have an effect.

Hurray for inconsistency!
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#7CrazyMechaPosted 3/15/2013 7:36:51 AM
wiiking96 posted...
avengah posted...
Try using a Hopslipper on a Boomerang Bro. It'll do 0 damage, 10 times. This is because it has 2 subtracting defence.

Boss defence is either /2 or /4, depending on the boss and the phase. During a /2 phase, you could use the more powerful Hopslippers and they'd actually have an effect.

Hurray for inconsistency!


That happened to me. I was so confused when I had just used a hopslipper on a hammer bro and was fine. Why do the boomerang bros get special treatment???
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#8CVNut13(Topic Creator)Posted 3/15/2013 8:35:41 AM
Magnemight posted...
It is a bit silly that the game insults you for powering through using naught but your skills, but it does say so for a reason.

Thing is, the Thing stickers aren't really P-Wings. Remember how you used the Fan to get that windmill to move? After the first world, the game is chock-full of situations where you absolutely need a Thing to progress, bosses and minibosses included. The bosses aren't meant to be tests of combat skill, as in the previous Paper Mario games, but puzzles in themselves. Incidentally, if you encounter a fight in which none of your attacks work, you can always flee the fight, even boss battles. To add to the puzzle element, some boss battles want you to wait for the appropriate time to use the correct thing, so one really does have to be careful. The Scissors would have done FAR more damage than they normally would to the first boss if you used them when the boss's segments were flipping around, but it wouldn't have been too useful if you used them before that point. The same for all Things, actually; if it's the wrong Thing or at the wrong time, it won't do too much damage and still be affected by that massive defense boost.

The game isn't encouraging you to spam superweapons, it's encouraging you to use the single appropriate superweapon at the appropriate time to hit the boss's weak point. And if you don't manage to figure it out (and remember, you can run from a fight and stickerize your guesses and come back if you don't think you've got the solution) you can get your rear end handed to you.


That's why I mentioned that unless I needed the Thing (for a puzzle, I neglected to mention), then I wouldn't use it. But wow, I didn't really think that the bosses would actually need Things in order to beat them? If that's the case then the Scissors was poorly implemented; "Oh let's have an example of using Things in combat." "Let's make it a OKHO battle ender." "Give this guy a raise he is a genius."

It doesn't even help that when you used the Scissors, Bowser Jr. didn't have any weak points or whatever, it was just him healing. I don't know, for some reason this is really irking me since that was the first instance that shows you HOW to use the Thing, and it just made it seem that it was a giant overpowered weapon.
#9CVNut13(Topic Creator)Posted 3/15/2013 8:38:22 AM
Bass50 posted...
Magnemight posted...
The game isn't encouraging you to spam superweapons, it's encouraging you to use the single appropriate superweapon at the appropriate time to hit the boss's weak point. And if you don't manage to figure it out (and remember, you can run from a fight and stickerize your guesses and come back if you don't think you've got the solution) you can get your rear end handed to you.


And this is one of the problems with this game. In any game resembling an RPG, anything that can be considered a superweapon is usually hard to obtain and completely unnecessary for completing the game. That uber powerful sword that has stat boosts out the wazoo? Ya gotta go through three optional dungeons and a boss that makes the final boss look like a wimp to get it. It's use? Playing through the New Game+ and feeling like a badass when every enemy and many of the bosses are wiped out in one hit, so purely for ***** and giggles and maybe a speed run that may net you that super armor.

Having a bunch of uber weapons readily available just to make the bosses easier to handle(sometimes too easy) makes the game seem like it's overcompensating by relying on some flashy battle attacks to make players 'ooh' and 'ahh'. The fact that a character in the game is programmed to chide you for not finding and/or using said uber weapon just makes it worse.


The last paragraph pretty much sums up my feelings about the Things. Had I known that they weren't as special as previously thought (or at least made out to seem as rare and super as previously thought) then maybe I would've carted around the Fan? I don't know. All I can say is that I'm understanding why this was made out to be such a bad game. They did a horrible job with the Things concept! D:
#10CVNut13(Topic Creator)Posted 3/15/2013 8:41:39 AM
Czar_Yoshi posted...

Not ridiculous, poorly designed. Boss defense divides by 4 and rounds down- but the only times in the game where attacks can do 0 damage are in world 1 because plot armor and the game wants to teach you something.

So, any sticker dealing between 7 and 1 damage will hit the boss for 1 damage, 8-11 = 2 damage, etc. Even if you fling one of those rare, valuable megaflash stickers at it, it's still going to take a pittance- unless you use a hopslipper, which does a full 10 damage. Any kind of hopslipper does that much, so upgrading them is completely pointless. Hence all bosses become boring spamfests if you don't have the right sticker, and, quite frankly, it's a lot more of a hassle for me to head into a level and go, "Hmm, I wonder what the boss's weakness will be" and somehow pack the correct sticker than it is to pack 30 hopslippers and call it done (yes, every boss but 1, 4, and Bowser has 300HP).


avengah posted...
Try using a Hopslipper on a Boomerang Bro. It'll do 0 damage, 10 times. This is because it has 2 subtracting defence.

Boss defence is either /2 or /4, depending on the boss and the phase. During a /2 phase, you could use the more powerful Hopslippers and they'd actually have an effect.


You have to be kidding me. That is so baaaaad, oh my god. What exactly where these people on, this hurts to read. My Paper heart is breaking, sweet jesus.