Thank God, no more forced waggle.

#11gransPosted 2/15/2013 9:36:31 AM(edited)
From: XXXB0BXXX | #010
I agree that the ground pound should be X, but rolling needs to be Y.

It'll work fine if the ground pound and rolling are separated into their own buttons. Ground pound can be X and rolling can be Y (with jumping being mapped to the B button). But again with the fundamentally different physics and momentum in Returns, the run button should be kept separate from the rolling. To work well with that layout, run needs to be mapped to a shoulder button. I don't see the game working as well if both run and roll are mapped to the same button. I know how DKC on SNES controls and those games control very well, but Returns I don't think would work as well having running and rolling the same button given the different momentum.
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#12XXXB0BXXXPosted 2/15/2013 10:01:41 AM
Wait, I thought run was automatic in DKCR... it's been a while since I've played that game. Anyways, I'd be fine with using Y for both rolling and running. The game isn't that much different from the original trilogy.
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#13gransPosted 2/15/2013 10:51:25 AM(edited)
From: XXXB0BXXX | #012
Wait, I thought run was automatic in DKCR... it's been a while since I've played that game. Anyways, I'd be fine with using Y for both rolling and running. The game isn't that much different from the original trilogy.

Running is a separate button. The same button also grabs barrels. At least that's how it is for sideways wiimote mode. Never tried any other control schemes but I'm guessing it's pretty similar. Unless running is automatic when using the Nunchuck's analog stick. I'll have to check that out. I guess it wouldn't be too bad if running WAS actually automatic though. I don't tend to find myself walking much in the game unless i'm on a really precarious platform.

And Returns is a lot different from the original trilogy from a control feel perspective. There are certainly similar gameplay elements to the originals in the form of barrel blasting, mine carts and such. But the game's movement feels drastically different from a physics perspective. Moving around and jumping are far more heavy on the momentum.

I played the original games again before I got Returns. I grew up with the SNES versions and still play them to this day. I have a lot of experience with them and pretty much mastered the controls in them (can run through them pretty efficiently while raking up lives and not dying that much). When I got Returns though, I was basically having to relearn a completely new type of movement physics because it really didn't feel anything like the original games. It took me a few minutes to grow accustomed to the different momentum, despite having just come off of the original trilogy. It didn't take long to learn the new feel of the momentum but it was certainly a massive difference. To cite the game once again, Rayman Origins was a very similar experience to me in that it had similar gameplay elements to the original Rayman but the movement physics were just dramatically changed and I had to adjust to them for a few minutes.

It's hard to explain in words, but I can tell you that while having the run and roll moves being the same button worked well in the SNES games, merging run and roll into the same button for Returns just wouldn't work well due to the drastically different and more pronounced momentum.
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NEVER judge a game you have not played.
-Granville
#14gransPosted 2/15/2013 12:29:45 PM
Ok apparently running is automatic when you play with the nunchuck and push the stick all the way. So the controls won't be an issue anyways if they just choose to make you run automatically.
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NEVER judge a game you have not played.
-Granville
#15IngSlayerPosted 2/16/2013 9:01:29 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#16-Jester-Masque-Posted 2/18/2013 2:18:25 PM
My first reaction when I saw this on Nintendo Direct: "Oh, that sucks. One of the big upcoming 3DS titles is one that I've already played. I'd love to see it in 3D, but that's not enough of a reason to play it all over again."

Then I realized that the rolling would be mapped to a button (because there's no way they'd have players give their systems whiplash). Now I absolutely have to get this. I loved DKCR, but it also kind of broke my heart (as much as a video game can, I guess). The level design was superb and the art style was exactly what DKC should look like in 2010. However, the time attacks broke me. I did end up getting Gold on every level (not "Shiny Gold" though), but it was probably the most frustrating experience I've ever had with a game. Torn between my love for the level layout and my hate for the motion controls, it made the game so much less enjoyable than it could have been. I think I even wrote Retro an e-mail, requesting a patch that would allow players to change the controls.

So now here we are, two years later and it looks like I'll be getting what I wanted. Granted, there was a couple of other problems that I had with the game. That is, I didn't like how the Gold requirement was so unforgiving. Don't get me wrong, it should absolutely be difficult, but I always like it when there's still a lot of room for improvement beyond the best time that the game recognizes. It often meant that you had to do a level a very particular way and any other way would simply not work.

Also with the time attacks, the load screens were infuriating. I had been playing a lot of Super Meat Boy prior to DKCR, which has a much more simple graphic style, but because of that, you can retry almost instantly after dying. In DKCR, if you died, you had to watch the "Oh no! You died!" animation, the "loading" silhouette screen, and then (because your time would still be continuing from the previous attempt), you'd h ave to pause, hit "retry" and "yes" to confirm. Then, wait again at the silhouette screen for the level to load, and THEN wait for the little pig to count down "2, 1, go". Think it's annoying to read? Yeah, imagine going through the whole process a few dozen (or even a hundred) times at every super difficult time attack challenge.

I really hope that they've somehow fixed this. For example, give us the option to turn "practice mode" on and off so that our time starts back at 0.00 when we fail. The mid-level checkpoints would need to be re-worked a bit, but it's not hard to figure that out either.
#17imameliaPosted 3/7/2013 6:04:05 PM
What would REALLY be nice is if we could map all 5 possible moves (jump, run, roll, pound, and blow) to whatever buttons we want, but I don't see that happening. My desired setup would be B for jump (naturally), Y for run and roll, A for pound, and X for blow, or possibly R for running instead if using Y for both would be too problematic.
#18Solid SonicPosted 3/16/2013 6:43:50 PM
I'm totally on board with this version.

I can probably see myself actually getting into this one comparatively.
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#19MarblesbunbunPosted 3/21/2013 10:45:29 PM
Agreed, waggle BS broke the game.
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#20guedesbrawlPosted 3/28/2013 12:56:16 PM
XXXB0BXXX posted...
Agreed, but still 10.

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